Organ Pipes Pass - Camel Route
11 May 2014 09:06 - 12 May 2014 07:35 #60651
by Selous
Replied by Selous on topic Organ Pipes Pass - Camel Route
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Last edit: 12 May 2014 07:35 by diverian.
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11 May 2014 11:40 #60656
by Zecrates
Pretty much, yes. I take it your group is the one mentioned in the article linked by Selous ?
Replied by Zecrates on topic Organ Pipes Pass - Camel Route
petroengel wrote: Is this photo taken just as one passes underneath Castle Butress?
Pretty much, yes. I take it your group is the one mentioned in the article linked by Selous ?
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11 May 2014 11:48 #60657
by Zecrates
Replied by Zecrates on topic Organ Pipes Pass - Camel Route
Having gone up the Camel last year, I believe they made a wise decision by turning back. For the most part the Camel is a fantastic route, but it does have one section which is extremely risky and which I wouldn't attempt in slippery conditions either.
What exactly is KZN Wildlife's responsibilities in this regard? Is there something like an "officially maintained route"?
Every time I hike from the Cockade camping area to the start of Cockade pass I wish somebody would perform a bit of maintenance on the crazy overgrowth present there.
What exactly is KZN Wildlife's responsibilities in this regard? Is there something like an "officially maintained route"?
Every time I hike from the Cockade camping area to the start of Cockade pass I wish somebody would perform a bit of maintenance on the crazy overgrowth present there.
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11 May 2014 20:52 #60658
by ghaznavid
Replied by ghaznavid on topic Organ Pipes Pass - Camel Route
Surely the duty to keep records of route conditions and path maintenance these days comes down to the mountain clubs (including VE). Perhaps in a perfect world we would expect this of EKZN, but I don't know that its fair to expect this of them.
Perhaps Cathedral Peak has incentive to know what's going on in their area of the Berg though.
I know at Giant's Castle the majority of the staff don't even know the names of many of the passes, or which ones have paths and which ones don't.
I get the feeling that most visitors in the Berg seem to sit on their veranda at the chalets and enjoy the view. Perhaps a 2km walk may be in order, but I really don't think that hikers are high on the priority list.
There is an old saying that 20% of your customers will provide 80% of your revenue. To EKZN we are just R45 per night people who disappear into the mountains. Meanwhile people are paying to stay in their chalets etc require a lot more attention. Out of sight, out of mind. From a business view point, catering to the more serious hikers doesn't make much sense. Its easy enough for people going up the chain ladders or Rhino Peak, but more unusual routes like the Camel really can't be seen as a priority.
Just a side thought
As VE members we have up to date info on at least 60 of the passes in the Berg. Stijn and Tony have already done detailed writeups on many of the Berg passes - especially in the more commonly hiked areas. Perhaps there may be benefit in putting together a small booklet of pass info for the more common areas and allow Cathedral Peak Hotel, Didima, MCC etc to hand these out to hikers, or sell them for the cost of printing. The booklet can then refer people to VE for more info and would include some form of disclaimer of responsibility.
Just a thought...
Perhaps Cathedral Peak has incentive to know what's going on in their area of the Berg though.
I know at Giant's Castle the majority of the staff don't even know the names of many of the passes, or which ones have paths and which ones don't.
I get the feeling that most visitors in the Berg seem to sit on their veranda at the chalets and enjoy the view. Perhaps a 2km walk may be in order, but I really don't think that hikers are high on the priority list.
There is an old saying that 20% of your customers will provide 80% of your revenue. To EKZN we are just R45 per night people who disappear into the mountains. Meanwhile people are paying to stay in their chalets etc require a lot more attention. Out of sight, out of mind. From a business view point, catering to the more serious hikers doesn't make much sense. Its easy enough for people going up the chain ladders or Rhino Peak, but more unusual routes like the Camel really can't be seen as a priority.
Just a side thought
As VE members we have up to date info on at least 60 of the passes in the Berg. Stijn and Tony have already done detailed writeups on many of the Berg passes - especially in the more commonly hiked areas. Perhaps there may be benefit in putting together a small booklet of pass info for the more common areas and allow Cathedral Peak Hotel, Didima, MCC etc to hand these out to hikers, or sell them for the cost of printing. The booklet can then refer people to VE for more info and would include some form of disclaimer of responsibility.
Just a thought...
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12 May 2014 08:14 - 12 May 2014 08:15 #60659
by Josh of the Bushveld
Replied by Josh of the Bushveld on topic Organ Pipes Pass - Camel Route
Good idea. Sell it as fund raiser to help Intrepid with the costs of running the server etc.
I'd be happy to contribute to the layout and printing costs etc.
I'd be happy to contribute to the layout and printing costs etc.
Last edit: 12 May 2014 08:15 by Josh of the Bushveld.
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12 May 2014 08:44 #60660
by firephish
Replied by firephish on topic Organ Pipes Pass - Camel Route
booklet is a good idea.
Back to the original post, i think it is generally accepted that one is responsible for ones own safety on the escarpment. The camel is well-know to be somewhat risky in adverse conditions so i don't really get the point the writer is making wrt this. If he wants a 100% safe pastime he should maybe consider bowls?
Wrt to the point about the contour path in the cathedral peak area i 100% agree, absolutely no maintenance has taken place for many years. I would think this would be more of a priority for KZW Wildlife as the contour path is often used by day hikers form Cathedral Peak Hotel & Didima.
Back to the original post, i think it is generally accepted that one is responsible for ones own safety on the escarpment. The camel is well-know to be somewhat risky in adverse conditions so i don't really get the point the writer is making wrt this. If he wants a 100% safe pastime he should maybe consider bowls?
Wrt to the point about the contour path in the cathedral peak area i 100% agree, absolutely no maintenance has taken place for many years. I would think this would be more of a priority for KZW Wildlife as the contour path is often used by day hikers form Cathedral Peak Hotel & Didima.
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12 May 2014 09:43 #60661
by tiska
Replied by tiska on topic Organ Pipes Pass - Camel Route
I agree with firephish's response on the safety-responsibility issue and the contour path. On the latter, those paths were expensive to build and are a fantastic resource to access the mountains. They are fading fast though. I would support VE efforts to clear key parts of the paths.
On the safety issue and who is responsible, I think the published article has the potential to set up conditions none of us would like. Examples include KZN Wildlife closing certain paths and passes or, as they do in parts of the US, requiring some kind of 'certificate of competency' to head off into the mountains. Neither of those things would be welcome in my eyes. Rather lets keep things informal, use resources like the VE forum to all of our advantages and keep 'KZN Wildlife's responsibility for us' to a minimum. They have much more important things to contend with.
On the safety issue and who is responsible, I think the published article has the potential to set up conditions none of us would like. Examples include KZN Wildlife closing certain paths and passes or, as they do in parts of the US, requiring some kind of 'certificate of competency' to head off into the mountains. Neither of those things would be welcome in my eyes. Rather lets keep things informal, use resources like the VE forum to all of our advantages and keep 'KZN Wildlife's responsibility for us' to a minimum. They have much more important things to contend with.
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12 May 2014 12:12 #60662
by BobbyStanton
Replied by BobbyStanton on topic Organ Pipes Pass - Camel Route
How about a Wiki attached to this site that would contain the current state of each path and pass. If each had its own section and was accurately dated and signed (to establish credibility) it would be an invaluable resource to all hikers and EKZNW as well.
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12 May 2014 14:00 #60663
by ghaznavid
Replied by ghaznavid on topic Organ Pipes Pass - Camel Route
The thing with a Wiki is that people are as likely to find it as they are to find this website.
The nice thing about a booklet is that we can provide the area with an updated PDF, they print it and people can read it before they set out on the route or even take it with them. I guess psychology would suggest that if it is colour and people have to pay for it they are more likely to trust it and actually use it. What I have in mind is a booklet that we email to EKZN for them to have in their offices, whether they want it to be colour or charge for it we would leave up to them (perhaps with a maximum fee of, say, R10 as we don't want it to be a money making thing - just an aid to hikers).
We could also put the colour PDF under downloads, get MCSA, MBC etc to put it on their website as a free download. The objective is that of giving info that may prevent people from getting into dangerous positions, with the objective of cutting down on injuries in the Berg.
The list of rescues posted on this site some time ago showed lots of rescues on Xeni Pass. I wonder how often people try a route like this not knowing anything about it - simple info on a route can be enough to put people off doing something they really shouldn't do.
The nice thing about a booklet is that we can provide the area with an updated PDF, they print it and people can read it before they set out on the route or even take it with them. I guess psychology would suggest that if it is colour and people have to pay for it they are more likely to trust it and actually use it. What I have in mind is a booklet that we email to EKZN for them to have in their offices, whether they want it to be colour or charge for it we would leave up to them (perhaps with a maximum fee of, say, R10 as we don't want it to be a money making thing - just an aid to hikers).
We could also put the colour PDF under downloads, get MCSA, MBC etc to put it on their website as a free download. The objective is that of giving info that may prevent people from getting into dangerous positions, with the objective of cutting down on injuries in the Berg.
The list of rescues posted on this site some time ago showed lots of rescues on Xeni Pass. I wonder how often people try a route like this not knowing anything about it - simple info on a route can be enough to put people off doing something they really shouldn't do.
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13 May 2014 16:54 #60681
by intrepid
Take nothing but litter, leave nothing but a cleaner Drakensberg.
Replied by intrepid on topic Organ Pipes Pass - Camel Route
As far as I am aware, there is no official maintenance policy for passes. The contour path does need to be maintained and I really hope future budgets will address this. VE members can only make a small dent in clearing the bush unfortunately.
How to better inform the public about the state of passes? This is a good question. I am all for initiatives, but I also know that things are often easily started only to run out of steam later on, or fall apart due to technicalities or bureaucracy. And who puts in the time and effort to produce and maintain such information - that is always the question for me.
Perhaps a paragraph on the key passes, and key paths, in popular areas is attainable, and may only be one or two pages per area. This is something we can consider, though something I'm not in a hurry to commit to. Please do keep sharing your thoughts on this.
Ships Prow Pass is considered to be a no-go pass by KZN Wildlife as far as I am aware, meaning they do not recommend it, knowing at the same time that hikers still do it. It could well be that if this is raised with them, they would simply "officially" close the Camel Route and advise hikers not to use it.
How to better inform the public about the state of passes? This is a good question. I am all for initiatives, but I also know that things are often easily started only to run out of steam later on, or fall apart due to technicalities or bureaucracy. And who puts in the time and effort to produce and maintain such information - that is always the question for me.
Perhaps a paragraph on the key passes, and key paths, in popular areas is attainable, and may only be one or two pages per area. This is something we can consider, though something I'm not in a hurry to commit to. Please do keep sharing your thoughts on this.
Ships Prow Pass is considered to be a no-go pass by KZN Wildlife as far as I am aware, meaning they do not recommend it, knowing at the same time that hikers still do it. It could well be that if this is raised with them, they would simply "officially" close the Camel Route and advise hikers not to use it.
Take nothing but litter, leave nothing but a cleaner Drakensberg.
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