Organ Pipes Pass - Camel Route
14 May 2014 09:40 #60693
by Aux
Replied by Aux on topic Organ Pipes Pass - Camel Route
Hi all. We did Camel pass on the last weekend of Feb this year. The condition of the pass was not bad. The rock section was also wet after all the rain we had the previous day of the hike. It was the 4th time i have done the Camel and it was not different from any othere time. Yes that section is intemedating but the amount of friction on the rock always surprise me.
I think that the booklet is a good idee but people needs to understand that the berg is a wild area and it is a proper mountan and with that there will always be objective hazards. I feel it comes down to how you handle it. Good for them on turning back but i feel by doing that thay created another dangerous situation.
That is why i always carry 10m 6mm ab-cord and ods and end to help if it looks to dangerous.
I think that the booklet is a good idee but people needs to understand that the berg is a wild area and it is a proper mountan and with that there will always be objective hazards. I feel it comes down to how you handle it. Good for them on turning back but i feel by doing that thay created another dangerous situation.
That is why i always carry 10m 6mm ab-cord and ods and end to help if it looks to dangerous.
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17 May 2014 14:27 #60739
by ghaznavid
Replied by ghaznavid on topic Organ Pipes Pass - Camel Route
What I would have in mind for such a book would be a photo of the area showing where all the passes are, e.g.
Then a list of each pass above with a table showing each pass in a separate row and the following details in each column:
- Distance: either in km or short (e.g. Hlubi), medium (e.g. Giants) or long (e.g. Leslies)
- Steepness: steep (Langies), very steep (Bannerman), extremely steep (Hlubi). Yes I know Langies isn't actually steep - but you either have to allocate "gentle" as a rating and have to explain to unfit people why you didn't mislead them - or you have Dave Bristow's problem where Langies and Fangs have the same difficulty rating and Mnweni Pass is implied to be harder than Icidi and Ships Prow
- Path: no, vague, decent path in places, good path
- Technical: no, rocky in places or yes
- Exposure: not significant or significant
This could then be followed up with a pass writeup for those where one is available or someone specifically wants to do one. So for Giants (assuming Stijn and Tony are happy for their writeups to be used) there would already one for Giants Pass, Langies, both Hlubi's, Bannerman, Gypaetus and Corner. Thus none of the Jardings, Thumb Pass pass, Judge Pass or Around the Corner Pass would get a writeup - but at least if someone wanted info they would be able to get some info from the table (well, not on Around the Corner Pass - but on the others).
I would imagine that it would be best for each booklet to have a specific person in charge of that one. So for example I would take Giant's Castle seeing as I know the area quite well. But anyone on the site could contribute to any of the books (provided their contributions are based on first hand experience) - and it would be up to the discretion of the person in charge of that book to decide what to include.
I won't have time between now and July, but I'd be keen to put together a rough format of what I would have in mind for the Giant's Area. If the idea doesn't go anywhere its really not the end of the world.
ghaznavid wrote:
Then a list of each pass above with a table showing each pass in a separate row and the following details in each column:
- Distance: either in km or short (e.g. Hlubi), medium (e.g. Giants) or long (e.g. Leslies)
- Steepness: steep (Langies), very steep (Bannerman), extremely steep (Hlubi). Yes I know Langies isn't actually steep - but you either have to allocate "gentle" as a rating and have to explain to unfit people why you didn't mislead them - or you have Dave Bristow's problem where Langies and Fangs have the same difficulty rating and Mnweni Pass is implied to be harder than Icidi and Ships Prow
- Path: no, vague, decent path in places, good path
- Technical: no, rocky in places or yes
- Exposure: not significant or significant
This could then be followed up with a pass writeup for those where one is available or someone specifically wants to do one. So for Giants (assuming Stijn and Tony are happy for their writeups to be used) there would already one for Giants Pass, Langies, both Hlubi's, Bannerman, Gypaetus and Corner. Thus none of the Jardings, Thumb Pass pass, Judge Pass or Around the Corner Pass would get a writeup - but at least if someone wanted info they would be able to get some info from the table (well, not on Around the Corner Pass - but on the others).
I would imagine that it would be best for each booklet to have a specific person in charge of that one. So for example I would take Giant's Castle seeing as I know the area quite well. But anyone on the site could contribute to any of the books (provided their contributions are based on first hand experience) - and it would be up to the discretion of the person in charge of that book to decide what to include.
I won't have time between now and July, but I'd be keen to put together a rough format of what I would have in mind for the Giant's Area. If the idea doesn't go anywhere its really not the end of the world.
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18 May 2014 09:32 #60743
by HFc
Replied by HFc on topic Organ Pipes Pass - Camel Route
Sounds good to me.
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08 Jul 2014 16:28 - 08 Jul 2014 16:34 #61265
by intrepid
Take nothing but litter, leave nothing but a cleaner Drakensberg.
Replied by intrepid on topic Organ Pipes Pass - Camel Route
I have given some thought to the issues and suggestions raised in this thread. I have also had some input from a group of people who assist me as an advisory team in VE-related matters (these include diverian, tonymarshall and domsmooth). Here is a response that I would like to put forward for now:
1. The prime responsibility to be informed and prepared for the mountains, ultimately always rests on those venturing into them, regardless of what form the information is available in. KZN Wildlife also bears a responsibility in keeping their visitors informed and in keeping their existing leaflets on trails updated, relevant and available. I would like to believe that VE can assist and play a role in this regard, but only in such as way as to keep the responsibility where it should be, and not to take it onto our own shoulders.
2. We do have a concern about the amount of time it takes to produce and maintain such a system. We are all people that do this in our private capacity, and VE is currently not commercially driven. In addition, VE's current capacity is pretty much fully given towards other projects (over and above the substantial amount of time it takes just to keep the site running). Personally, I may one day have more time and head-space to write this kind of material, but currently my struggle is that I easily spend more time and energy behind a computer doing things FOR the Berg, than actually being IN the Berg. So personally I don't have the capacity right now for committing to this kind of project. These ideas may benefit a lot of people, and are very noble, but the reality is the work all too often falls on the shoulders of a few individuals.
3. For some time we have considered a kind of wiki, whereby short, salient, factual information on things such as passes, caves and peaks can be posted. Even trail conditions can be covered. Its a kind of catalogue, which is in addition to (and summarises) all the information which is already available in the forum. Various members would be able to contribute. This would basically answer a suggestion already made earlier in this thread. Some may recall that we already tested a Wikipedia type set-up previously, but I put it on hold because it was too much to maintain at the time. This idea is still under consideration however, and may be re-implemented in a different form in the (hopefully near) future.This would be the place to nurture and develop any sort of document. If we can get enough such wiki-references for a given area, then these can form the basis of such a document, and only then will I consider taking it forward. We can then consider a pilot area, and identify which trails and passes would even be suitable to include. And all of this assumes an interest and support from KZN Wildlife, as well as proper consideration of any liability issues.
4. Nothing is stopping anyone from doing longer and more detailed write-ups on their own accord. We are happy for these to be published on the site in order to give it exposure. Many will know that Stijn used to have his own site and submitted all of his pass write-ups for republishing on VE. We can do the same for anyone that wants to write more. It will be screened and checked as much as possible, but ultimately publishing it on the site does not mean we fully vouch for the accuracy of the information. It merely means we consider it acceptable enough and that it should be scrutinised by VE members. Just a note specifically on relative ratings of passes (eg giving it a difficulty rating and that kind of thing): this is something that VE currently does not want to be the judge of - until such time as we can work out a good way of doing it. If we publish your information and it contains ratings, it does not mean we have deemed the rating accurate. The topic is good one for healthy debate on the forums, but until we establish a reliable framework for working out such relative ratings, any official info from VE will seek to steer clear of it.
1. The prime responsibility to be informed and prepared for the mountains, ultimately always rests on those venturing into them, regardless of what form the information is available in. KZN Wildlife also bears a responsibility in keeping their visitors informed and in keeping their existing leaflets on trails updated, relevant and available. I would like to believe that VE can assist and play a role in this regard, but only in such as way as to keep the responsibility where it should be, and not to take it onto our own shoulders.
2. We do have a concern about the amount of time it takes to produce and maintain such a system. We are all people that do this in our private capacity, and VE is currently not commercially driven. In addition, VE's current capacity is pretty much fully given towards other projects (over and above the substantial amount of time it takes just to keep the site running). Personally, I may one day have more time and head-space to write this kind of material, but currently my struggle is that I easily spend more time and energy behind a computer doing things FOR the Berg, than actually being IN the Berg. So personally I don't have the capacity right now for committing to this kind of project. These ideas may benefit a lot of people, and are very noble, but the reality is the work all too often falls on the shoulders of a few individuals.
3. For some time we have considered a kind of wiki, whereby short, salient, factual information on things such as passes, caves and peaks can be posted. Even trail conditions can be covered. Its a kind of catalogue, which is in addition to (and summarises) all the information which is already available in the forum. Various members would be able to contribute. This would basically answer a suggestion already made earlier in this thread. Some may recall that we already tested a Wikipedia type set-up previously, but I put it on hold because it was too much to maintain at the time. This idea is still under consideration however, and may be re-implemented in a different form in the (hopefully near) future.This would be the place to nurture and develop any sort of document. If we can get enough such wiki-references for a given area, then these can form the basis of such a document, and only then will I consider taking it forward. We can then consider a pilot area, and identify which trails and passes would even be suitable to include. And all of this assumes an interest and support from KZN Wildlife, as well as proper consideration of any liability issues.
4. Nothing is stopping anyone from doing longer and more detailed write-ups on their own accord. We are happy for these to be published on the site in order to give it exposure. Many will know that Stijn used to have his own site and submitted all of his pass write-ups for republishing on VE. We can do the same for anyone that wants to write more. It will be screened and checked as much as possible, but ultimately publishing it on the site does not mean we fully vouch for the accuracy of the information. It merely means we consider it acceptable enough and that it should be scrutinised by VE members. Just a note specifically on relative ratings of passes (eg giving it a difficulty rating and that kind of thing): this is something that VE currently does not want to be the judge of - until such time as we can work out a good way of doing it. If we publish your information and it contains ratings, it does not mean we have deemed the rating accurate. The topic is good one for healthy debate on the forums, but until we establish a reliable framework for working out such relative ratings, any official info from VE will seek to steer clear of it.
Take nothing but litter, leave nothing but a cleaner Drakensberg.
Last edit: 08 Jul 2014 16:34 by intrepid.
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08 Jul 2014 20:12 #61266
by john mark 1
Replied by john mark 1 on topic Organ Pipes Pass - Camel Route
That sounds like a very sensible response Intrepid. Let it be known that the piles of work you and the other moderators do behind the scenes is extremely appreciated
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27 Jan 2015 18:06 #62723
by supertramp
Replied by supertramp on topic Organ Pipes Pass - Camel Route
Just a comment on the article:
We were a group of 7 people that descended the Camel Route on the 24th of January 2015. The pass itself was in my opinion in relatively good shape with only a few places where a little bit of extra caution was needed. It definitely offers some of the most spectacular views of any pass I've done before. I am glad that (having read the article before we departed) that it did not deter us from doing it.
I would however just like to warn that some sections might be too risky in icy conditions. I would not attempt the pass after a cold weather spell.
We were a group of 7 people that descended the Camel Route on the 24th of January 2015. The pass itself was in my opinion in relatively good shape with only a few places where a little bit of extra caution was needed. It definitely offers some of the most spectacular views of any pass I've done before. I am glad that (having read the article before we departed) that it did not deter us from doing it.
I would however just like to warn that some sections might be too risky in icy conditions. I would not attempt the pass after a cold weather spell.
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20 Mar 2015 09:58 #63114
by Drakensbergie
Replied by Drakensbergie on topic Organ Pipes Pass - Camel Route
Hello kind folks
Does anybody have a GPS track for the entire Camel Route? As in all the way from the CP Hotel? Am I right in assuming that this is the most direct route to Roland's Cave?
Many thanks...
Does anybody have a GPS track for the entire Camel Route? As in all the way from the CP Hotel? Am I right in assuming that this is the most direct route to Roland's Cave?
Many thanks...
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20 Mar 2015 10:12 #63115
by Dillon
Replied by Dillon on topic Organ Pipes Pass - Camel Route
I can give you a full track from where Didima Staff will drop you off on Mikes Pass, up Organ Pipes via Thuthumi Ridge to Roland's Cave and back down, via the Camel, to Didima. I think CP Hotel might be slightly shorter, but the little bit of a lift you can get up Mikes Pass to start your hike, should make up for this.
I've attached the Google Earth file, I'll have to scratch around at home for the gpx file, if you need it. That will only be possible on Monday though.
I took a group of kids on this hike, hence the stopover at Old Fire Lookout. Actually made for a nice, relaxed 3 Day Hike.
I've attached the Google Earth file, I'll have to scratch around at home for the gpx file, if you need it. That will only be possible on Monday though.
I took a group of kids on this hike, hence the stopover at Old Fire Lookout. Actually made for a nice, relaxed 3 Day Hike.
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20 Mar 2015 10:19 #63116
by Drakensbergie
Replied by Drakensbergie on topic Organ Pipes Pass - Camel Route
Thanks dude, I'll PM you my email adress.
Much appreciated.
Much appreciated.
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20 Mar 2015 12:10 #63119
by Riaang
Replied by Riaang on topic Organ Pipes Pass - Camel Route
I can also send you one I got this morning from TonyMarshall if you want (going up there end of Apr first time). Goes up from the hotel via Ribbon falls up the Camel, then traverses North to Twins cave and the down the Bell Traverse.
PM me if you are interested.
PM me if you are interested.
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