Grading & severity of Berg climbing

This discussion was forked from the "Fools and Foreigners predict the weather in the Berg" trip write-up.

if I could give you a one piece of advice GHAZNAVID about climbing is the berg, is to get as much practice on sport and trad as possible, to climb well in the berg I would say you need to be confident on a trad lead on a grade of about a 17 to 19 grade.
Monte in KZN is a great spot to do that and also learn how to make quick and safe stances to bring up your 2nd or for rapping off.
however don't leave the bolts alone. push your grades on sport then transfer that to trad.
to describe berg climbing to you is easy, ITS FOR BABOONS AND VULTURES. I just love the berg like us all and climb it because its there. and the grading system is grade D - DEATH SCRAMBLE and grade F - F@%ing SCARY LEAD

I live in KZN and you welcome to give me a shout for some climbing.


Cheers Greg.

I have tried several times and, I think, mostly failed to describe Berg climbing on the VE forum.

But this description is the best yet

DoctorG wrote: to describe berg climbing to you is easy, ITS FOR BABOONS AND VULTURES.
Greg.

So I successfully lead a 12 today (Adam's Appoplexy) - and I only took 2h30...

DoctorG wrote: if I could give you a one piece of advice GHAZNAVID about climbing is the berg, is to get as much practice on sport and trad as possible, to climb well in the berg I would say you need to be confident on a trad lead on a grade of about a 17 to 19 grade.

.....

I live in KZN and you welcome to give me a shout for some climbing.

Cheers Greg.

Thanks for the advice

Hardest Berg routes I have in mind are E's, would I still need to be able to lead 17 to 19's outside of the Berg?

I must will get hold of you shortly. I was climbing with Bugs today. Its always nice to talk to someone who doesn't just say that only idiots climb in the Berg.

even a grade E in the berg can become so run out that it will feel like a grade 21

That's good (well, scary) to know

My goal for a start is to hit Sentinel via McLeod's variation on the long weekend in September. I hear that's a good place to start. The E is also a chimney so the psychological side shouldn't be as bad (I hope - I'm still yet to do a chimney anywhere).

@Moderators: This thread may need to be split so the hike report is separate from the one about climbing?

By the way, how crimpy are Berg routes?

The reason I ask is that I am finding that I usually am ok with crimps for foot holds, but I often struggle on small hand holds. E.g. a move top 2m of Adam's Apoplexy there are decent holds for your right hand and both feet, but nothing for the left hand, I really struggled with that move (eventually I figured out that there was a low push hold I could use). The crux of the route is an off balance lay-back move which I also struggled quite a bit with (although I think I could easily repeat it now that I know how I did it last time).

intrepid wrote: I wonder what "E" stands for then, in that definition of the grading system..."Eish, look how run-out I am"...."Eloquent pulling on grass"?

Intrepid's joke reminds me that the pommies grade a route using two descriptors, one for the technical moves and one for 'dangerous/run-out/poor gear/high risk of decking' - the latter reflecting the consequences if you fall off.

So you can have:
an easy technical route that is run-out/has poor gear etc and is therefore dangerous (lots of standard routes in the Berg qualify)
a hard technical route that is run-out/has poor gear and is therefore dangerous (many of the newer routes in the Berg qualify)
an easy technical route that is well protected (scarce in the Berg)
a hard technical route that is well protected (not sure this exists in the Berg?)

It makes the grading system more complicated but would, in my view, be quite useful for some berg routes. At the moment one has to read between the lines of the RD to figure out the danger.

I propose we rename this thread to: "Let's make sure Ghaznavid doesn't kill himself in the Berg"

Stijn wrote: I propose we rename this thread to: "Let's make sure Ghaznavid doesn't kill himself in the Berg"

I think that title sums it up pretty well