Via Ferrata route in the Berg

06 Sep 2013 13:40 #58410 by ccjoubert

intrepid wrote:
As for the Free State section of the Berg, I would call for the establishment of a policy governing this kind of thing. It should be established by open and transparent means, involving all relevant and affected parties. In the absence of such an agreement we are vulnerable to more controversies.


The current policy for the KZN section of the drakensberg was established by the MCSA and enforced by KZN wildlife to my knowlegde? Do you think it would be best if the Free state section would adapt the same or similar policy on the matter. Under what regulator does the Free State section fall, and what say would the MCSA have in this. Or would we only rely on the fact that the average climber generally respect the policies of the MCSA?. We do not have many rock climbers in the Free state section of the MCSA so this entire debate passed the Free State section with almost no discussion.

Although the Free state section is so small it contains all of the following, which need to be addressed in such a policy:
The bolted route on sentinel north face, Paradigm shift.
The bolts at the end of the second and third pitch of Angus-Leppan
the bolts installed in beacon buttress gully for adventure racers/trail runners
The chain ladder.

If we can get a draft policy for bolting/protection in the free state section I will take the matter up at the next meeting of the Free state section and see if we can get it accepted as our policy.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
06 Sep 2013 21:01 #58412 by ghaznavid
I like the concept - but I assume it wouldn't have any legal standing. I think if we campaigned to have the chain ladders taken down we would meet some serious opposition - especially from the existing community (maybe a VE poll is in order - although its merely academic).

I'm also pretty sure the state and land owners would not allow the ladders to be removed - after all they are a huge tourist draw card (even though they cause that ugly zigzag line up the side of Sentinel as seen from the car park).

My views in summary:

The bolts on Paradigm Shift aren't really visible from what I have seen and thus don't really matter, but seeing as they probably aren't maintained, it might be an idea to chop the route.

The bolts, chains, metal poles etc on the Gully are an eyesore - there are plenty of large stable rocks to anchor a rope off. Also, if a hiker tripped they could easily cut themselves on the rusted metal.

Angus Leppan was opened on full trad and thus bolts should be chopped. Retro bolting a trad route in a strictly trad area (even if only a few bolts) is poor form. Especially on such a popular route.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
07 Sep 2013 08:39 - 07 Sep 2013 08:40 #58413 by intrepid
I'm not at all suggesting anything further be removed.

What I was getting at is that there needs to be more agreement and co-operation about what is done in this area. At the moment its a bit of a free-for-all and people do what is right in their own eyes. And land ownership is barely considered. If this continues then we will just see more things go up. I'm also not suggesting that nothing be allowed at all. I'm saying that whatever is done, it need to be done transparently and be regulated by a standard that is agreed on by all stake-holders. And that should include the tribal authority. MCSA definitely has a role to play, and because of the close proximity to the UDP-WHS I think KZN Wildlife too (rescue costs are a consideration too and the fact that many access the Park from this side).

Take nothing but litter, leave nothing but a cleaner Drakensberg.
Last edit: 07 Sep 2013 08:40 by intrepid.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
07 Sep 2013 12:42 - 07 Sep 2013 12:51 #58414 by ccjoubert

intrepid wrote: I'm not at all suggesting anything further be removed.


Neither would I like to see anything removed. This was not what I was going after at all.

In debates over the VF advocates thereof always reasoned that the VF was in the Free State, not in the KZN, and therefore OK since the MCSA's bolting policy only stand for the KZN. My personal opinion is that the same policy should also stand for the free state section.

According to the MCSA KZN's bolting policy, bolting is allowed on certain conditions. For example the bolt or two that was placed on the icidi pencil since it was done openly and according to their policy. I don't object against the bolts on Angus Leppan I really appreciate them on the traverse of the 4th pitch and think they have merit and would also satisfy the bolting policy. However since this is in the Free state no-one has to ask anyone if it is OK. I don't know much about the bolts on Angus Leppan and if approval was sought before.

If you were too look at the situation at Yellowwood amphitheater. No-one would dare bolting a route there. But there are some rap anchors which were placed with consensus. www.climbing.co.za/wiki/Yellowwood_Amphitheatre. It also provide for the existing routes: (In this case Paradigm Shift)
"Yellowwood is a very special Trad climbing venue and there have been some mis-steps in route development at the crag. Newborn was bolted many years ago before locals had given much thought to bolting and ethics. It is a legacy that shall remain, but should not be seen as guidance for route development at Yellowwood. More recently four new routes have been established by visitors who have made extensive use of non-essential bolting. Whilst route development is encouraged, non-essential bolting is not; and these new routes are getting their non-essential bolts removed. They will remain as good adventurous routes."
If we had I policy like this for the free state section, and had it signed by enough climbers, the VF would never have happened.
Last edit: 07 Sep 2013 12:51 by ccjoubert.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
11 Feb 2014 14:16 #59663 by intrepid
Alard Hufner has now publicly apologised according to the agreement reached with KZN Wildlife:
www.iol.co.za/news/south-africa/kwazulu-natal/sorry-says-top-sa-mountaineer-1.1645202#.UvoS9c4Uwg0

Take nothing but litter, leave nothing but a cleaner Drakensberg.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
11 Feb 2014 15:15 #59664 by tiska
Replied by tiska on topic Via Ferrata route in the Berg
In my view, the timing of Alard Hufner's apology puts pressure of KZN Wildlife to strongly and persistently oppose the Cable Way.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Serious tribe

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
11 Feb 2014 19:01 - 22 Apr 2014 17:55 #59667 by intrepid
@mnt_tiska: yhat might be so, yes.

I have noticed among the public on several occasions, a confusion between the the via ferrata issue and the cableway issue though.

Firstly, KZN Wildlife are not the ones initiating and driving the cableway proposal. It is the DEDT. Definitely not the same crowd of people. EKZNW does have a role to play to ensure that the potential EIA is done properly - but this is not the same as being in support and driving the project. The comments that they have "double standards" by being against the via ferrata but are for the cableway, is based on misinformation and shows a lack of understanding on what the cableway proposal is all about.

Secondly, the via ferrata clearly crossed into the park, and thus certain laws apply. A different set of laws and management principals applies to land alongside the park. Some of the comments I've seen show that the people making them think that the cableway is being built squarely within the park - it shows lack of understanding of whose land the Busingatha is. I am not for the cableway, and building something that close to the the MDP-WHS I think is criminal - the point I'm making is that legally this is not the same issue.

Thirdly, the via ferrata was built without any announcement, consultation or permission (that have been disclosed). The cableway proposal has been very badly managed to far, but, it is out in the open, and if it is built, will have to get the proper permission. If proper consultation had been made before the via ferrata was built, it may still exist today, perhaps not in the location where it was though.

Take nothing but litter, leave nothing but a cleaner Drakensberg.
Last edit: 22 Apr 2014 17:55 by intrepid.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
11 Feb 2014 19:21 #59668 by tiska
Replied by tiska on topic Via Ferrata route in the Berg
There can be no denying that the cable way will have major spill over effects for KZN Wildlife's capacity to manage that part of the high Berg. The concrete structure might be technically off their map, but its effects won't be.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
13 Feb 2014 10:02 #59678 by ghaznavid
Alard wrote on ClimbZA

So the land in Orange Free State on which 94% the VF was ( we now know this as the area has been surveyed ), is owned by a king/chief and he has handed over the management of that land to a management company. I had verbal permission form the manger (at the time) of that management company to install the VF……. looking at the Royal Natal web site and on the front page was a map that clearly showed that the planned VF was about 100m clear of Natal and the Royal Natal National Park…………….

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
13 Feb 2014 22:15 #59682 by intrepid
As mentioned before, I still call for a co-operative agreement to be reached between the Batlokoa community (whose land it is), KZN Wildlife, MCSA and any other stakeholder which will regulate this kind of thing for the Free-State Berg, specifically also for the Sentinel/Chain Ladder area. I'm not calling for an absolute stop to any sort of bolting up there, as much as I'm calling for a policy and a proper way to approach this kind of thing. This will prevent this kind of controversy in future and will also ensure that things are regulated in an orderly and transparent way in that area. I find it most unfortunate the way this incident has divided the climbing community and has brought so much harsh criticism to all parties concerned by the various camps in the debate.

Take nothing but litter, leave nothing but a cleaner Drakensberg.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
Powered by Kunena Forum