GPS units
08 Oct 2014 15:02 #62012
by PeterHowells
Replied by PeterHowells on topic GPS units
Battery life is one of the reasons I have never upgraded my Garmin eTrex Legend - using 2 Lithium AA batteries gets me more than 36 hours before needing to be replaced.
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03 Nov 2014 20:06 #62256
by Drakensbergie
Replied by Drakensbergie on topic GPS units
Does anybody have any expreience with the Garmin Foretrex 401?
www.garmin.co.za/prod_detail_outdoor.php?productid=429
It ticks all the boxes:
Compass, altimeter, trip computer, 84grams with batteries (2 x AAA), tracks, waypoints, backtracking all for R2150 (special on Kalahari.com).
But no maps and can't load any...
How critical is this though? I always carry a map and compass as back up anyway, but surely a cave at co-ordinates and altitude of X and Y, can still be found regardless of topo details as you would have on a map...?
Anyone ever use one of these...?
Many thanks.
www.garmin.co.za/prod_detail_outdoor.php?productid=429
It ticks all the boxes:
Compass, altimeter, trip computer, 84grams with batteries (2 x AAA), tracks, waypoints, backtracking all for R2150 (special on Kalahari.com).
But no maps and can't load any...
How critical is this though? I always carry a map and compass as back up anyway, but surely a cave at co-ordinates and altitude of X and Y, can still be found regardless of topo details as you would have on a map...?
Anyone ever use one of these...?
Many thanks.
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04 Nov 2014 06:58 #62260
by Josh of the Bushveld
Replied by Josh of the Bushveld on topic GPS units
The Fenix is about R1k more at Takealot. I've uploaded some very basic maps to it
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04 Nov 2014 08:18 #62261
by tonymarshall
Replied by tonymarshall on topic GPS units
I don't have experience with the Garmin Foretrex 401, and use a Garmin Etrex 20.
It's probably not that critical in the circumstances you describe not to have maps on the gps, you can probably get by sufficiently by compensating by loading additional waypoints along your route to reference your position, and a track to follow to help you navigate.
I am by no means a gps expert, and have used my unit for about 3 years, and have found that as I have learnt more of the functions and become more familiar with it, I have reduced my use of paper maps during hikes to the extent that I almost exclusively depend on the gps mapping while hiking, except when necessary to reference a larger area of map than can be viewed on the gps screen, for example to show group members over lunch the rest of our route for the afternoon. I also find it very useful to have the mapping on my pc, to download and reference tracks and do hike route planning as I am prone to exploration type hikes where tracks aren't always available from others, and I use the topography to plot the planned route.
So I would say not having maps on your gps isn't that critical, but as you develop gps experience you may want to have this functionality and may then need to change to a unit that can accommodate this.
It's probably not that critical in the circumstances you describe not to have maps on the gps, you can probably get by sufficiently by compensating by loading additional waypoints along your route to reference your position, and a track to follow to help you navigate.
I am by no means a gps expert, and have used my unit for about 3 years, and have found that as I have learnt more of the functions and become more familiar with it, I have reduced my use of paper maps during hikes to the extent that I almost exclusively depend on the gps mapping while hiking, except when necessary to reference a larger area of map than can be viewed on the gps screen, for example to show group members over lunch the rest of our route for the afternoon. I also find it very useful to have the mapping on my pc, to download and reference tracks and do hike route planning as I am prone to exploration type hikes where tracks aren't always available from others, and I use the topography to plot the planned route.
So I would say not having maps on your gps isn't that critical, but as you develop gps experience you may want to have this functionality and may then need to change to a unit that can accommodate this.
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09 Nov 2014 19:48 #62275
by eras
Hi Dave
I use an eTrex 20 with SA topo maps, and I completely agree with Tony.
Unless you specifically want a wrist-worn GPS I would go for something like an eTrex 10 or 20 with a basemap or with the ability to add maps. The eTrex 10 is cheaper than the forerunner. In the case of the 20 it's about R800 more expensive, can load maps and is totally worth it (safety and conveniece).
If you use a GPS in combination with a printed map you can easily pinpoint yourself or a waypoint, it just takes long. With a topo map on your GPS you can quickly check where you are without having to use the map and GPS together, which usually involves stopping (or at least should involve stopping. I get reprimanded often by my wife for trying to walk and check maps/GPS. Haven't face-planted yet..)
It also helps to compare calculations from the printed map on screen, visualised. I have often made silly mistakes from being tired and pick it up when I check it on-screen.
If you can spare the extra bucks I would suggest going for something with maps.
I use an eTrex 20 with SA topo maps, and I completely agree with Tony.
Unless you specifically want a wrist-worn GPS I would go for something like an eTrex 10 or 20 with a basemap or with the ability to add maps. The eTrex 10 is cheaper than the forerunner. In the case of the 20 it's about R800 more expensive, can load maps and is totally worth it (safety and conveniece).
If you use a GPS in combination with a printed map you can easily pinpoint yourself or a waypoint, it just takes long. With a topo map on your GPS you can quickly check where you are without having to use the map and GPS together, which usually involves stopping (or at least should involve stopping. I get reprimanded often by my wife for trying to walk and check maps/GPS. Haven't face-planted yet..)
It also helps to compare calculations from the printed map on screen, visualised. I have often made silly mistakes from being tired and pick it up when I check it on-screen.
If you can spare the extra bucks I would suggest going for something with maps.
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10 Nov 2014 09:58 #62277
by Drakensbergie
Replied by Drakensbergie on topic GPS units
Thanks for the feedback
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26 Jun 2015 18:13 #64399
by diverian
An interesting article by Gavin Raubenheimer
www.peakhigh.co.za
GPS in the mountains- the myth exposed
Last year I was sitting at my desk working, when a distress call came in from a hiker in the Drakensberg. He reported that he and his wife had been lost for two days in a region of the southern area of the range and they were requesting a rescue. Some 48 hours earlier he had fallen down a small slope and in doing so his Global Positioning System (GPS) had got lost somehow. I went through the standard type questions on the state of the parties health and the weather and so on. What I soon established was that they had a proper map with them but they could not read it, so they could not work out where they were. Nor had they known for two days where they were. Even though the weather was clear the entire time!! More alarming was the fact that they had followed a single, large valley from the ranger’s office up until they lost the GPS, but they still could not find their way back. After a few minutes of questioning I established they were only a few kilometers from their car and I had field rangers sent out and they were soon brought back.
As head of a rescue team this is just one story of many that I have of non-existent navigation when people rely on GPS systems. Hikers and climbers have come to believe that the hand held GPS is the answer to bad map reading and the magnetic compass. People are still getting lost at the same rate as before, if not more often. They sometimes find themselves in an even worse position than they would have twenty years ago, simply because they cannot even vaguely read a contour-line or they aren’t carrying a map.
So why has the GPS become so ubiquitous in the mountains and wilderness areas of South Africa and around the world. That is a long answer but to try and explain it, let us examine what it gives us: The GPS can tell us where we are (most of the time), it has a map built in and way points can be programmed in before or in the field. It can also tell the user all sorts of other data, like how far you have walked and how high you have climbed in total. Then in-conjunction with this is the human fascination with technology, continued upgrades of interesting techno stuff and basically human laziness to think and research things. Lastly people have been led to believe by the manufacturing companies that in their product lies the answer to great adventures and easy navigation.
So where does it go wrong? Let us look at another technological innovation of the last few decades, the microwave oven. When these first came on the market four decades ago the word was out that they could cook everything in an instant, even controlled right down to the last second. Everything from boiling a cup of water, to cooking steak and baking cakes. And that is all absolutely true – you can cook just about anything in a microwave oven. Unfortunately many foods don’t do very well with this method! Do you really want to do your rump steak in a microwave oven? The same goes for navigation in the wilderness, a GPS can do many things, but not all of it very well.
So why doesn’t a GPS work as well as we expect it to work? The main reason is this: in order to establish the best route from A to B requires the hiker to read what the contour-lines tell about the terrain they will traverse over. Hand-in-hand with that goes the ability to stand looking at the contour lines and the actual terrain ahead and tie the two together. Then with this it goes automatically that the hiker knows in what direction they are moving in and where they are in relation to their surrounds.
On a GPS, the screens are simply too small and hard to see what exactly is going on with the surrounding topography. On a map all those little tight contour lines, rivers and symbols are telling huge amounts of important information and most of this is lost on the GPS user. As a result the GPS orientated hiker knows where they are – – – on a little machine, but the hiker has little idea of where they really are in relation to the surrounding mountains or what the ground will be like once they are walking over it. That means they have no idea of the safest or most efficient way between two points. The reader must also keep in mind that when hiking over unfamiliar terrain the best or safest route cannot be plotted on a computer back at home. The best way can often only be seen when actually standing on the terrain in question, and it could become evident that a new line has to be taken. This simply is not possible while following a GPS track on a screen. The GPS user is drawn to keep on a predetermined track because they simply cannot see what will occur if they veer off it.
Now if a hiker or climber can read a map properly it goes without saying they must know where they are. Good map reading means that even when visibility drops to near zero, the map user maintains where they are by using tools such as a compass, map and terrain evaluation, river flow direction and a whole host of other very easy and logical clues. 10112010_008
There is also a big safety compromise when thinking that a GPS is the number one answer to getting around. An example of this is if you are hiking up a snow filled alpine valley in mist and cloud following a GPS track. Unless you have actually taken a map and studied the contours, there is no way of telling where the most likely avalanche slopes would be found and how to avoid them.
A short story to consider: A few years ago I took part in a multi-day mountain bike event in Lesotho. We were all told to have a GPS in each team with the route already loaded. Instead, in our team we had a map with the route marked on it, and a compass. As we rode across the unfamiliar mountains the teams tended to stop at the same points and start to consult their little navigation machines. There was a lot of squinting into the screens and conversation like: “Guys we are about 50 meters left from where we should be and its says we have traveled at 16.25 kilometers per hour since our last stop”. That is useless navigation, but it goes on all the time with outdoor people.
What we could see on our easy to read contour lines, was things like what sort of valley shape we were going to travel down. We could look ahead and see things such as: in about 1.5 kilometers the path will run parallel to the big river and 2mm (about 100 meters) above it until it joins the tar road in 5 kilometers time. What we could see on the map at a glance and we could also see looking ahead on the ground. The result: we could put the map away and follow the path until we reached the tar road. The GPS people could not see that, they could only see a blip on a not-too-easy-to-see screen. Later that day some rider looked over at us and said: “Let’s just follow them, they seem to know where they are going”.
If you are a proud owner of a GPS don’t despair. They have a use, but it’s not in fine or efficient wilderness navigation. You can get interesting data from them like distance traveled or height gained. GPS’s are also very useful for a land surveyor, when they need to find a specific point in very uniform terrain like a single peg in a grassy field. For the rest of the time they are best left in your rucksack or at home. If you consider yourself a serious outdoors-person, your first port-of-call will be a good detailed map, followed by a compass and a fist full of skill. If you have a GPS maybe use it as a paper weight to hold the corner of the map down.
About the writer:
Gavin Raubenheimer is a professional mountain guide and instructor and is the convener of mountain rescue in KwaZulu Natal, South Africa. He has navigated with a map and compass through mountains and valleys of the Drakensberg, the European Alps, the Atlas mountains, the Canadian Rockies, the Andes, Jordon, Scotland, Kilimanjaro, Mt. Kenya and the Ruwenzoris of Uganda to name a few.
www.peakhigh.co.za
GPS in the mountains- the myth exposed
Last year I was sitting at my desk working, when a distress call came in from a hiker in the Drakensberg. He reported that he and his wife had been lost for two days in a region of the southern area of the range and they were requesting a rescue. Some 48 hours earlier he had fallen down a small slope and in doing so his Global Positioning System (GPS) had got lost somehow. I went through the standard type questions on the state of the parties health and the weather and so on. What I soon established was that they had a proper map with them but they could not read it, so they could not work out where they were. Nor had they known for two days where they were. Even though the weather was clear the entire time!! More alarming was the fact that they had followed a single, large valley from the ranger’s office up until they lost the GPS, but they still could not find their way back. After a few minutes of questioning I established they were only a few kilometers from their car and I had field rangers sent out and they were soon brought back.
As head of a rescue team this is just one story of many that I have of non-existent navigation when people rely on GPS systems. Hikers and climbers have come to believe that the hand held GPS is the answer to bad map reading and the magnetic compass. People are still getting lost at the same rate as before, if not more often. They sometimes find themselves in an even worse position than they would have twenty years ago, simply because they cannot even vaguely read a contour-line or they aren’t carrying a map.
So why has the GPS become so ubiquitous in the mountains and wilderness areas of South Africa and around the world. That is a long answer but to try and explain it, let us examine what it gives us: The GPS can tell us where we are (most of the time), it has a map built in and way points can be programmed in before or in the field. It can also tell the user all sorts of other data, like how far you have walked and how high you have climbed in total. Then in-conjunction with this is the human fascination with technology, continued upgrades of interesting techno stuff and basically human laziness to think and research things. Lastly people have been led to believe by the manufacturing companies that in their product lies the answer to great adventures and easy navigation.
So where does it go wrong? Let us look at another technological innovation of the last few decades, the microwave oven. When these first came on the market four decades ago the word was out that they could cook everything in an instant, even controlled right down to the last second. Everything from boiling a cup of water, to cooking steak and baking cakes. And that is all absolutely true – you can cook just about anything in a microwave oven. Unfortunately many foods don’t do very well with this method! Do you really want to do your rump steak in a microwave oven? The same goes for navigation in the wilderness, a GPS can do many things, but not all of it very well.
So why doesn’t a GPS work as well as we expect it to work? The main reason is this: in order to establish the best route from A to B requires the hiker to read what the contour-lines tell about the terrain they will traverse over. Hand-in-hand with that goes the ability to stand looking at the contour lines and the actual terrain ahead and tie the two together. Then with this it goes automatically that the hiker knows in what direction they are moving in and where they are in relation to their surrounds.
On a GPS, the screens are simply too small and hard to see what exactly is going on with the surrounding topography. On a map all those little tight contour lines, rivers and symbols are telling huge amounts of important information and most of this is lost on the GPS user. As a result the GPS orientated hiker knows where they are – – – on a little machine, but the hiker has little idea of where they really are in relation to the surrounding mountains or what the ground will be like once they are walking over it. That means they have no idea of the safest or most efficient way between two points. The reader must also keep in mind that when hiking over unfamiliar terrain the best or safest route cannot be plotted on a computer back at home. The best way can often only be seen when actually standing on the terrain in question, and it could become evident that a new line has to be taken. This simply is not possible while following a GPS track on a screen. The GPS user is drawn to keep on a predetermined track because they simply cannot see what will occur if they veer off it.
Now if a hiker or climber can read a map properly it goes without saying they must know where they are. Good map reading means that even when visibility drops to near zero, the map user maintains where they are by using tools such as a compass, map and terrain evaluation, river flow direction and a whole host of other very easy and logical clues. 10112010_008
There is also a big safety compromise when thinking that a GPS is the number one answer to getting around. An example of this is if you are hiking up a snow filled alpine valley in mist and cloud following a GPS track. Unless you have actually taken a map and studied the contours, there is no way of telling where the most likely avalanche slopes would be found and how to avoid them.
A short story to consider: A few years ago I took part in a multi-day mountain bike event in Lesotho. We were all told to have a GPS in each team with the route already loaded. Instead, in our team we had a map with the route marked on it, and a compass. As we rode across the unfamiliar mountains the teams tended to stop at the same points and start to consult their little navigation machines. There was a lot of squinting into the screens and conversation like: “Guys we are about 50 meters left from where we should be and its says we have traveled at 16.25 kilometers per hour since our last stop”. That is useless navigation, but it goes on all the time with outdoor people.
What we could see on our easy to read contour lines, was things like what sort of valley shape we were going to travel down. We could look ahead and see things such as: in about 1.5 kilometers the path will run parallel to the big river and 2mm (about 100 meters) above it until it joins the tar road in 5 kilometers time. What we could see on the map at a glance and we could also see looking ahead on the ground. The result: we could put the map away and follow the path until we reached the tar road. The GPS people could not see that, they could only see a blip on a not-too-easy-to-see screen. Later that day some rider looked over at us and said: “Let’s just follow them, they seem to know where they are going”.
If you are a proud owner of a GPS don’t despair. They have a use, but it’s not in fine or efficient wilderness navigation. You can get interesting data from them like distance traveled or height gained. GPS’s are also very useful for a land surveyor, when they need to find a specific point in very uniform terrain like a single peg in a grassy field. For the rest of the time they are best left in your rucksack or at home. If you consider yourself a serious outdoors-person, your first port-of-call will be a good detailed map, followed by a compass and a fist full of skill. If you have a GPS maybe use it as a paper weight to hold the corner of the map down.
About the writer:
Gavin Raubenheimer is a professional mountain guide and instructor and is the convener of mountain rescue in KwaZulu Natal, South Africa. He has navigated with a map and compass through mountains and valleys of the Drakensberg, the European Alps, the Atlas mountains, the Canadian Rockies, the Andes, Jordon, Scotland, Kilimanjaro, Mt. Kenya and the Ruwenzoris of Uganda to name a few.
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26 Jun 2015 20:05 #64400
by ASL #Bivak
Replied by ASL #Bivak on topic GPS units
Thanks so much for this! I have done few trips to the Berg with people using GPS devices and it's a nightmare! We can never plot any course and stay on it..
My other experience is that it causes people to doubt the map. Net result is that I have spent more time lost (even in a small area!) Than ever before.
The main use I have for a GPS is finding caves when you close out on the area.
My other experience is that it causes people to doubt the map. Net result is that I have spent more time lost (even in a small area!) Than ever before.
The main use I have for a GPS is finding caves when you close out on the area.
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28 Jun 2015 05:42 #64402
by DeonS
I use my GPS with my paper maps - I find a GPS very useful when hiking in very thick mist, but I have then pre-loaded the track as well as the map on it and use it with the paper map to navigate. I can use map & compass as well because a GPS can stop working at any time that has happen a few times before. I would suggest to those who want to use a GPS to get one pre-loaded with the Topo maps or purchase a copy as this helps with the contour lines showing some relief on the maps. Some of the newer models can be loaded with a copy of your paper map scanned and converted, something that I started and this helps immensely with plotting your position on the map, but again this only helps if your GPS is working and is only a aid or tool to help you, do not only rely on it to navigate you. Map work is a skill that you can only learn through practice and more practice, even when I go into a known area I take my map & compass and use it to do some practice.
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28 Jun 2015 14:11 #64403
by Drakensbergie
Replied by Drakensbergie on topic GPS units
I also use my GPS a lot, often to help with locating caves and passes. I usually cross reference with a map as well, pinpointing my position on a map using the GPS co-ords. And every single time I got myself lost, it was my GPS that got me back on track. So yes, and no.
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