Synthetic or Down?
15 Aug 2011 18:21 #3683
by drsnoobab
@Boerkie The amount of thermal underwear depends directly on the amount of canoodling involved and depends not on the weather conditions, but on when you next expect your tent to be slashed by a voyeuristic herdsman.
On a serious note has anybody had the opportunity to check out the FA Icebreaker in the large (compared to regular) size. I have always felt claustrophobic in my old standard size bag and thought the extra size would be worth it, and the extra weight tolerable. The hard part is finding one ... everybody stocks regular, half of them have never heard of large, but C.U.M was happy to order me one if wanted at an extra R400 or so. Of course how does the standard size fit up for you guys who have used it - must admit it seems quite spacious.
Replied by drsnoobab on topic Re: Synthetic or Down?
I still want a bag that can merge with another (LH/RH) for cuddling and some high altitude canoodling when my wife tags along... do you wear your thermal underwear in the bag or more or less? Lets assume a average -5(ish) escarpment hike.
@Boerkie The amount of thermal underwear depends directly on the amount of canoodling involved and depends not on the weather conditions, but on when you next expect your tent to be slashed by a voyeuristic herdsman.
On a serious note has anybody had the opportunity to check out the FA Icebreaker in the large (compared to regular) size. I have always felt claustrophobic in my old standard size bag and thought the extra size would be worth it, and the extra weight tolerable. The hard part is finding one ... everybody stocks regular, half of them have never heard of large, but C.U.M was happy to order me one if wanted at an extra R400 or so. Of course how does the standard size fit up for you guys who have used it - must admit it seems quite spacious.
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16 Aug 2011 06:44 #3689
by Boerkie
Replied by Boerkie on topic Re: Synthetic or Down?
Eish! Looks like I'm the only anti-Down bag guy around? That's okay I'm still not converted. Maybe I should freeze my but off in a sythetic before switching to Down.
@Jonwells
Thanks for the link and yes those are shitty reviews indeed. Enough to scrap this bag from my list even for other uses than the Berg. But that being said I've read bad reviews of pretty much any and every piece of hiking equipment, including the MSR stoves, La Sportiva Tibet boots, etc. you name it and there is a bad review of it somewhere.
I now would like to know who is using a synthetic bag in Berg (Winter conditions) and what bag you are using.Also who is using liners and what model with commentary about it's performance.
It seems the only Technical synthetic available is the MH Pinole -6/7 ???
A sleeping bag for mid-winter escarpment hikes is probably one of the most important items for survival and I would not want to found wanting.
Thx for your input guys.
@Jonwells
Thanks for the link and yes those are shitty reviews indeed. Enough to scrap this bag from my list even for other uses than the Berg. But that being said I've read bad reviews of pretty much any and every piece of hiking equipment, including the MSR stoves, La Sportiva Tibet boots, etc. you name it and there is a bad review of it somewhere.
I now would like to know who is using a synthetic bag in Berg (Winter conditions) and what bag you are using.Also who is using liners and what model with commentary about it's performance.
It seems the only Technical synthetic available is the MH Pinole -6/7 ???
A sleeping bag for mid-winter escarpment hikes is probably one of the most important items for survival and I would not want to found wanting.
Thx for your input guys.
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16 Aug 2011 06:55 #3690
by intrepid
Take nothing but litter, leave nothing but a cleaner Drakensberg.
Replied by intrepid on topic Re: Synthetic or Down?
Always interesting for me to see a topic which gets people talking.
I use 3 different bags, one synthetic, the other 2 down. One of the down bags is some 14 years old (to compare, one of my first bags was synthetic, and I gave it away after 3 years or so). I'm a down fan cause you simply cannot beat the insulation you get for the weight. Am also a stickler for lightweight gear, and packed volume is also important for a smaller pack. Down is great for this.
Yes, down is a big problem if it gets wet. However, you'll have to try hard to get it soaked (throw a bag into a bath to see). I'm not saying it cannot ever happen, nor that you are dumb if it happens to you, but the chances are low with proper precautions (which I would take anyway, even with a synthetic bag). I had a case recently in Canada, where the oldish tent we were using decided it was perfect timing for the taping on the fly seams to fail on a sleety and rainy evening. We suddenly had drops falling on us with increasing intensity...on our down bags. We eventually whipped the groundsheet out from under the tent and pulled it through between the fly and the inner tent. This saved us. Our bags were a little wet but fine otherwise.
I'm curious about the liner-haters. I've used a First Ascent pertex liner for well over a decade and don't notice it at all (and I use it irrespective of the bag type). Have you guys been using cotton ones? Silky types of material are better cause they feel nice and they slide around easily inside the bag (besides the weight difference). Don't have issues with tangling at all.
@Boerkie: I don't consider a -5 bag sufficient at all for the Berg escarpment in winter. And I don't believe in trying to layer up too much plus extra liners - this only has a limited effect and benefit. I have bags for different seasons - one size doesn't fit all for me. I also know that people are different and metabolisms vary. Some folks just don't get cold easily, others do. So its hard to say exactly what will work for you specifically. Sometimes you just have to try things, and sometimes money is wasted in the process. About the Roman Passport: I have a Capestorm Dragonfly, which doesn't weigh a lot more than that (and even a FA Ice Breaker for that matter) and yet it is rated at -15 degC comfort! Feather type, design (like how the baffles distribute the feathers) are very important factors for down bags.
I normally sleep in thermal underwear, cause they are usually the cleanest item of clothing, and comfortable. If it's really cold I throw on a Cape Storm Puffadder and beanie.
Don't forget the type of mat you sleep on makes a huge difference to your insulation too.
ghaznavid said:
. Lots of good things about Kway in spite of some shortcomings.
I use 3 different bags, one synthetic, the other 2 down. One of the down bags is some 14 years old (to compare, one of my first bags was synthetic, and I gave it away after 3 years or so). I'm a down fan cause you simply cannot beat the insulation you get for the weight. Am also a stickler for lightweight gear, and packed volume is also important for a smaller pack. Down is great for this.
Yes, down is a big problem if it gets wet. However, you'll have to try hard to get it soaked (throw a bag into a bath to see). I'm not saying it cannot ever happen, nor that you are dumb if it happens to you, but the chances are low with proper precautions (which I would take anyway, even with a synthetic bag). I had a case recently in Canada, where the oldish tent we were using decided it was perfect timing for the taping on the fly seams to fail on a sleety and rainy evening. We suddenly had drops falling on us with increasing intensity...on our down bags. We eventually whipped the groundsheet out from under the tent and pulled it through between the fly and the inner tent. This saved us. Our bags were a little wet but fine otherwise.
I'm curious about the liner-haters. I've used a First Ascent pertex liner for well over a decade and don't notice it at all (and I use it irrespective of the bag type). Have you guys been using cotton ones? Silky types of material are better cause they feel nice and they slide around easily inside the bag (besides the weight difference). Don't have issues with tangling at all.
@Boerkie: I don't consider a -5 bag sufficient at all for the Berg escarpment in winter. And I don't believe in trying to layer up too much plus extra liners - this only has a limited effect and benefit. I have bags for different seasons - one size doesn't fit all for me. I also know that people are different and metabolisms vary. Some folks just don't get cold easily, others do. So its hard to say exactly what will work for you specifically. Sometimes you just have to try things, and sometimes money is wasted in the process. About the Roman Passport: I have a Capestorm Dragonfly, which doesn't weigh a lot more than that (and even a FA Ice Breaker for that matter) and yet it is rated at -15 degC comfort! Feather type, design (like how the baffles distribute the feathers) are very important factors for down bags.
I normally sleep in thermal underwear, cause they are usually the cleanest item of clothing, and comfortable. If it's really cold I throw on a Cape Storm Puffadder and beanie.
Don't forget the type of mat you sleep on makes a huge difference to your insulation too.
ghaznavid said:
Don't generaliseAs much as I know this forum seems to hate K-Way
. Lots of good things about Kway in spite of some shortcomings. Take nothing but litter, leave nothing but a cleaner Drakensberg.
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16 Aug 2011 07:36 #3693
by ghaznavid
I know not everyone hates K-Way, but every time I make a comment on them I get a snide remark back! Most of my equipment is K-Way, my pack, my tent, my sleeping bag, my thermal underwear, my shirts (which prove to be useful for exams, who thought that bamboo charcoal would work for making clothes), my fleeces and my raincoat. I personally have never had a problem with their equipment, and 80% of the time its the cheapest.
My sleeping bag is a K-Way Alpine Cowl Bag, rated 20 to -2 comfort and -6 survival, it weighs 1.8kg. Its rated for 3 seasons, I used it in April this year at Bannerman Hut, it must have reached around 0 degrees that night and I was fine (other than being very sick after drinking contaminated water). I also used it at Swiman Hut when the weather forecast for the hut was -4, and although the hut itself probably only got down to 0, it was still pretty cold, but I was fine, the bag was nice and warm. All other times it worked well. I have used it on hot nights in Ladysmith (where it gets pretty hot and uncomfortable), and the bag was very well moderated considering. That being said, I would maybe sleep in it up to contour path level in winter, but not a chance I would use it on the escarpment.
Replied by ghaznavid on topic Re: Synthetic or Down?
I know not everyone hates K-Way, but every time I make a comment on them I get a snide remark back! Most of my equipment is K-Way, my pack, my tent, my sleeping bag, my thermal underwear, my shirts (which prove to be useful for exams, who thought that bamboo charcoal would work for making clothes), my fleeces and my raincoat. I personally have never had a problem with their equipment, and 80% of the time its the cheapest.My sleeping bag is a K-Way Alpine Cowl Bag, rated 20 to -2 comfort and -6 survival, it weighs 1.8kg. Its rated for 3 seasons, I used it in April this year at Bannerman Hut, it must have reached around 0 degrees that night and I was fine (other than being very sick after drinking contaminated water). I also used it at Swiman Hut when the weather forecast for the hut was -4, and although the hut itself probably only got down to 0, it was still pretty cold, but I was fine, the bag was nice and warm. All other times it worked well. I have used it on hot nights in Ladysmith (where it gets pretty hot and uncomfortable), and the bag was very well moderated considering. That being said, I would maybe sleep in it up to contour path level in winter, but not a chance I would use it on the escarpment.
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16 Aug 2011 09:09 #3694
by Boerkie
Replied by Boerkie on topic Re: Synthetic or Down?
I have also picked up on the K-Way skeptics on this forum. I also like K-Way. The one thing to remember when buying gear is that only a small percentage of the price you pay is actually for the product.The bulk of the price is made up out of mark-ups, the 30% for the shop and another 30% for the production company.This get worse with imported gear as there are shipping costs as well.And don't forget bloody SARS!
Lets say it costs R1000 to manufacture 2 equal quality sleeping bags, one in SA and one in America. You will then probably pay for the SA bag R1800 and the American import R2200 although the product is actually the same.Buying local has the added advantage of after sales service being a lot less complicated.That being said some of the imported gear is Superior to local ones and the selling price validated.
Again what sucks is the different rating systems of sleeping bags.One is rated -5 Comfort and another -5 Survival and none are tested to one standard.This complicates the process of comparing one to another
I have now narrowed my choice down to:
Mountain Hardwear Pinole -6/7 @ 1450g R900
or
K-Way Aspen Eco 1250 -8 @ 1250g R1000
Both to be used with a good liner.
Sea to summit Reactor extreme liner
or
Sea to summit fleece liner.
I then intent to test the bag in my buddy's walk in fridge @ -10 before venturing out onto any extreme hikes.
All this being said I slept in a old army issue synthetic bag in Warden on a hunting trip when the mercury dropped down to -8. The Diesel "froze" in the bakkie and we could only get it started at 10am.I must admit that I had some anti-freeze myself which helped me sleeping through the cold.
@ Intrepid
I must say that I have started to realize that getting down soaked is not a simple thing and with proper precaution it can be managed but not all together eliminated.It is most definitely not only the rookies that have had to face this problem.This being said a wet synthetic is by no means going to be a walk in the park.
Like you said the mattress should be part of your insulation ammunition and there I totally agree with you.I intent on doing a double combo there 1 being the foam mattress and 2 a good "self" inflatable.
Lets say it costs R1000 to manufacture 2 equal quality sleeping bags, one in SA and one in America. You will then probably pay for the SA bag R1800 and the American import R2200 although the product is actually the same.Buying local has the added advantage of after sales service being a lot less complicated.That being said some of the imported gear is Superior to local ones and the selling price validated.
Again what sucks is the different rating systems of sleeping bags.One is rated -5 Comfort and another -5 Survival and none are tested to one standard.This complicates the process of comparing one to another
I have now narrowed my choice down to:
Mountain Hardwear Pinole -6/7 @ 1450g R900
or
K-Way Aspen Eco 1250 -8 @ 1250g R1000
Both to be used with a good liner.
Sea to summit Reactor extreme liner
or
Sea to summit fleece liner.
I then intent to test the bag in my buddy's walk in fridge @ -10 before venturing out onto any extreme hikes.
All this being said I slept in a old army issue synthetic bag in Warden on a hunting trip when the mercury dropped down to -8. The Diesel "froze" in the bakkie and we could only get it started at 10am.I must admit that I had some anti-freeze myself which helped me sleeping through the cold.
@ Intrepid
I must say that I have started to realize that getting down soaked is not a simple thing and with proper precaution it can be managed but not all together eliminated.It is most definitely not only the rookies that have had to face this problem.This being said a wet synthetic is by no means going to be a walk in the park.
Like you said the mattress should be part of your insulation ammunition and there I totally agree with you.I intent on doing a double combo there 1 being the foam mattress and 2 a good "self"
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16 Aug 2011 09:33 - 16 Aug 2011 09:34 #3695
by ghaznavid
Replied by ghaznavid on topic Re: Synthetic or Down?
One of the advantages of buying local rather than importing is the implications of the Consumer Protection Act which forces them to replace it if you bought it with any defect (as oposed to the old policy of "we will send it for repairs" and it never actually gets fixed)... It also forces them to label inferior products (I love the labels on cheap cricket bats due to the Act!), and if they don't you are entitled to charge them both under criminal and civil law, even by class action (previously non-existent under SA law). Although it forces people to put lame disclaimers after their statements... [the above is just my opinion, it does not constitute advice of a legal or otherwise nature]
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