Caves or tents?

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Poll: Do you prefer sleeping in caves or tents? (was ended 0000-00-00 00:00:00)

27 Jul 2011 08:17 #3417 by thomas
Replied by thomas on topic Caves or tents?
Good questions but loaded with contingencies: length of hike, location, season, outdoor skills you possess, accompanying gear, etc.

This question reminds me of when I used to be a regular guest speaker on an SABC radio motoring show with a particular focus on Drakensberg driving (usually Sani Pass). While everyone always spoke of their "wow" 4x4 cars and technical specs, I always asked what kind of a DRIVER came with the car because that would make more difference whether the car goes off the road or not (I have driven clunky Sedan cars up and down Sani; just look at all the current cars crashed and wrecked in the recent snowstorm). Likewise for hiking in the Berg, the hiker is all the difference. I hike without a tent because the weight of my pack makes a huge difference in my hiking enjoyment (a bivvy bag is a good option) and I can handle myself anywhere in the Berg under any conditions (see my forum topic on winter gloves, e.g.).

This question is also loaded with potential forum topic possibilities, in an age when cell phones and GPS's seem to lead the inexperienced and unknowing into dangerous environments and create false securities (not implying you are that, dunmor - I think your specific question is excellent and wish more would inquire before venturing forth). There is a huge collective wealth of substance and experience on this website that our Intrepid leader commands and many are willing to share. Tent or cave? I respect a hiker who knows his/her abilities and limitations and decides from there. Might suggest that you give us a location and timeframe and you will find much to recommend depending. I hope this is useful.

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27 Jul 2011 08:34 #3418 by dunmor
Replied by dunmor on topic Caves or tents?
The reason this question came up was that:
1. I don't have the experience
2. All over this forum people talk about the caves. No mention of tents

This made me concerned. Why the talk about caves... no mention about tents.
My logic told me that a good tent was better than a cave. But I felt uneasy.
Sure its weight, buts its your shelter.

Maybe I should pose the question like this:
If you had the right gear, good tent and it was winter, would you use a tent or a cave and why?

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27 Jul 2011 20:02 #3438 by Boerkie
Replied by Boerkie on topic Caves or tents?
Check out the "caves" section at www.berg.co.za to get a better picture of what is offered by the berg. Rolands cave is a must!

Try out both and see what you like. A tent can at time be the key factor in surviving, don't leave it until you experienced in "the berg" hiking.

Sleeping in a cave you feel part of the mountain whereas you can pitch your tent in your backyard and pretend to be on the escarpment.

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28 Jul 2011 07:23 #3441 by dunmor
Replied by dunmor on topic Caves or tents?
Thanks Boerkie
The images of the caves was a great help

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28 Jul 2011 08:44 #3443 by ghaznavid
Replied by ghaznavid on topic Caves or tents?
My main sources of info when I started hiking where berg.co.za and David Bristow's book Best Walks of the Drakensberg. Took a while before I found this forum (and then the become a member function wasn't working so I took forever to acually join).

Top of my list of caves to check out is Upper Injisuthi Cave, I'm hopefully doing it in October this year...

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28 Jul 2011 13:19 #3447 by dunmor
Replied by dunmor on topic Caves or tents?
Hi ghaznavid

Sounds like my story. Also use Best Walks Drakensburg, Thanks for the site www.berg.co.za. Wow on the face of it it does not seem like much, but more you dig in to it the more really good information you find.
Also had the same problem in registering on the site.

About the caves:
I have had only really two good reasons to stay in the Cave: 1. do not need to carry a tent (risky) and 2. Closer to nature ie you really experience the berg in a cave. Besides this at this stage I still lean towards a tent. Maybe with experience I will change my mind.

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28 Jul 2011 13:49 #3449 by ghaznavid
Replied by ghaznavid on topic Caves or tents?
i have slept in all 3 (tent, cave and mountain hut), both tents and caves have the same problem, that 1 small rock jabbing you in the side. It really depends on the cave though, eg pillar cave on the route up the rhino is flat, large and well sheltered, pillar cave annex is also flat and well sheltered, but not large. By contrast most caves are unflat, and some aren't as sheltered as you would like. But context is always important, eg many southern berg pass top caves (eg the 3 mzimude caves, the 3 hlatimba caves etc) are very well sheltered, fairly flat and look down the pass, so locals on the escarpment can't see you in the cave. In these areas a tent would not be nearly as good as the cave.

By contrast, if you are hiking up bannerman pass and elect not to stay at bannerman hut, while spare rib cave is well placed (80% of the way up the pass), its reknowned for theft and attacks, its unflat, wet and cold. Although you can't set up a tent on the pass (which is only 3km long so you don't really need to), you can atleast reach the top, hike north past the popple ridge and set up a tent there (although that is too far for 1 day from the car park, but NEVER sleep in a tent or cave between langalibilele and bannerman pass without a night watch). My point being, as one of the previous posts says, when planning a hike, run it past this forum and see what people who have done the hike before think, get their opinions and form your opinions based on experience...

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23 Aug 2011 09:41 - 23 Aug 2011 09:49 #3771 by intrepid
Replied by intrepid on topic Caves or tents?

dunmor wrote: The reason this question came up was that:
1. I don't have the experience
2. All over this forum people talk about the caves. No mention of tents

This made me concerned. Why the talk about caves... no mention about tents.

I think people talk a lot about caves here simply cause the Drakensberg is a very special place that has a lot caves and shelters that one can use. You don't find that in many places in the world. It's something we should really appreciate in the Berg (and also look after). Cave-talk is relevant because there are so many of them, and people want to know where to find a particular cave on their hike, how well sheltered they are, if there is water nearby etc. It's important for hike planning. And of course there is something very special about sleeping in a cave, especially the classic ones. You have much more flexibility in where you pitch your tent, than where you can find a cave, hence less discussion needed.

The classic caves aside (that almost everyone enjoys), I find that there are cave people and tent people. I, for one, love caves. I love looking for them, love watching bad weather and lightning from them curled up in my sleeping bag, love the social atmosphere they create (instead of everyone isolated in their tents), love rolling over in my sleeping bag in the mornings and firing up my cooker for coffee while watching the sunrise. I love the wilderness experience and sense of freedom caves offer. I find pitching a tent a lot of faffing, and even worse packing away a wet or iced-up one. I hate condensation build-up inside a tent. And a tent in strong wind is no fun.

Tent people, on the other hand, like the freedom of having a lot of flexibility of where you camp, and the assurance of a shelter. This is valid. They generally don't like the dampness, breeziness and dirt that can be associated with caves. And tents offer them a barrier against snakes and insects.

As much as I love caves, many of them are definitely not the best shelter. In some caves I've been rained on, snowed on, dripped on, wind blasted, sand blasted, flooded, and had mice running across my sleeping mat throughout the night. I've put up with litter and toilet mess (from hikers and smugglers alike), wet floors, and odours from animal dung and carcasses. I've shared caves with rodents, bats, snakes and a variety of insects (hiking buddies aside!). Yet I still love them. I've had many unforgettable experiences of being snug and comfortable in them with howling winds, rain and snow outside, grateful I wasn't in a tent. I've seen unforgettable lightning, sunrises, sunsets, moonlight and clouds below. And many good times with the people I was with. What a joy to enter a cave when you are cold and wet, and you don't have to pitch a tent, and have space to get dry and comfortable. And what a joy to find a cave you've had a long search for, or if you discover an unmarked cave, especially if its barely been used.

Mostly I take a tent along, even if it doesn't get used. This is recommended practice. You never know if you will reach the cave or even find it. You don't always know if it will be occupied, or offer acceptable shelter. The only time I will leave a tent behind is if everyone in the group is strong, fit and loves caves, and has a bivy bag. This along knowing the area well, and where the caves are. This is a special kind of hiking, with a special kind of freedom that I love.

Take nothing but litter, leave nothing but a cleaner Drakensberg.
Last edit: 23 Aug 2011 09:49 by intrepid.

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23 Aug 2011 12:14 #3774 by tiska
Replied by tiska on topic Caves or tents?
The reason I would choose a cave over a tent every time, regardless of how wet, windy or icy a cave was, is simply the security aspect. In a tent you are a sitting duck. With a torch on in a tent you advertise yourself for miles around. People outside can see you and you have no chance of seeing them. Notsurprisingly, most (all?) attacks on hikers at night that I know of have been on tents. I don't know of a case when people in a cave have been attacked. In a cave its much more of a 50:50 contest. In a tent, you tend to find out when its too late.

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24 Aug 2011 08:13 #3780 by intrepid
Replied by intrepid on topic Caves or tents?
I generally feel a little more secure in caves too - no interfering tent flapping noises, and no packs in the vestibule which can be grabbed. In a cave I'll pack my gear at the back of the cave, behind my head. However, some caves have been associated with security issues too - the most notorious is probably Bannerman Cave. The problem is when the shepherds cotton onto the fact they some caves are frequently used, and that if they can surprise or outnumber you, you are a little off guard wrapped up in your sleeping bag.

Take nothing but litter, leave nothing but a cleaner Drakensberg.

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