Should Sterkhorn be renamed Mount Mandela?
17 Feb 2011 09:59 #2426
by tiska
Replied by tiska on topic Re: Should Sterkhorn be renamed Mount Mandela?
To reply to Magan's thoughts - I would have no problem with reverting to some of the old Zulu names. Interestingly, Cathedral Peak would then need to be renamed Mponjwane, as many who have spent time talking to the old men in Mnweni will know. The mountain we know as Mponjwane, near the Rockeries, was a cartographic error.
The issue is that the 'big' men in politics who control all this renaming are not going to do something as generous as reverting to the originals - where they existed. They want to see themselves up there. Why settle for a 150m statue like Shaka has to when you can get 3200m worth?
The real problem, you see, is that politicians lie. And you can't lie to mountains.
The issue is that the 'big' men in politics who control all this renaming are not going to do something as generous as reverting to the originals - where they existed. They want to see themselves up there. Why settle for a 150m statue like Shaka has to when you can get 3200m worth?
The real problem, you see, is that politicians lie. And you can't lie to mountains.
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17 Feb 2011 13:14 - 17 Feb 2011 13:23 #2430
by zen101
Replied by zen101 on topic Re: Should Sterkhorn be renamed Mount Mandela?
Naming a peak after our Hero Mandela will also increase visitors (local and foreign) to this mount - This could translate into greater amounts of litter and erosion. Perhaps even a Sun international holiday resort.
Last edit: 17 Feb 2011 13:23 by zen101.
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17 Feb 2011 23:04 - 17 Feb 2011 23:21 #2432
by Serious tribe
Replied by Serious tribe on topic Re: Should Sterkhorn be renamed Mount Mandela?
@ mnt_tiska
We could call Cath Peak by it original name, we would then have to name the present incorrectly named Mponjwane by its original name of Ntabamabutho which means the 'mountains of the warriors'. It also includes the Rockeries, perhaps that is the line of warriors marching. I think with a lot peaks, it was to much Mahewu or Whiskey that lead to some of the more interesting names, depends on which part of the cultural divide you sat.
I think that without politicizing it, Mandela gave up a lot, and could have been belligerent, however the character of the man was gracious, humble and peaceable. I don't have an issue with him getting a prominent peak, what about NthabaMadiba or NthabaMandela. In his case, I think he deserves the recognition. This though should not open a flood gate of name changes. The Zulu names should stay, as they are historical, and give the area its originality and flavour. A lot of the English names relate to the early pioneers who opened up the Drakensberg by exploring the area, and for that reason they should stay.
The other thing that needs to be taken into account are the naming requirements and protocol in World Heritage areas.
We could call Cath Peak by it original name, we would then have to name the present incorrectly named Mponjwane by its original name of Ntabamabutho which means the 'mountains of the warriors'. It also includes the Rockeries, perhaps that is the line of warriors marching. I think with a lot peaks, it was to much Mahewu or Whiskey that lead to some of the more interesting names, depends on which part of the cultural divide you sat.
I think that without politicizing it, Mandela gave up a lot, and could have been belligerent, however the character of the man was gracious, humble and peaceable. I don't have an issue with him getting a prominent peak, what about NthabaMadiba or NthabaMandela. In his case, I think he deserves the recognition. This though should not open a flood gate of name changes. The Zulu names should stay, as they are historical, and give the area its originality and flavour. A lot of the English names relate to the early pioneers who opened up the Drakensberg by exploring the area, and for that reason they should stay.
The other thing that needs to be taken into account are the naming requirements and protocol in World Heritage areas.
Last edit: 17 Feb 2011 23:21 by Serious tribe.
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18 Feb 2011 09:19 #2433
by tiska
Replied by tiska on topic Re: Should Sterkhorn be renamed Mount Mandela?
In 1947 Sterkhorn was declared a National War Memorial by the Moth association and co-named Mount Memory. This was done to commemorate sacrifice and peace post WWII - lest we forget - and it seems we have.
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18 Feb 2011 11:10 - 18 Feb 2011 11:27 #2435
by tiska
Replied by tiska on topic Re: Should Sterkhorn be renamed Mount Mandela?
ST's post about Mponjwane's previous name reminds me that the Rockeries were thought of as the Cathedral and the 'now Mponj' as the Cathedral Tower - which makes sense when viewed from the north. The carto work in about 1910 got all of that wrong.
The reason I raised the issue about Mponj and Cathedral was that we could expect the name changing in the case of Cathdral Peak to be hugely resisted because of the hotel. I can't imagine Mponjwane Peak Hotel and Golf Course, spa and trout hatchery catching on in quite the same way to Euro tourists or anyone else who can afford a plate of sandwiches on the terrace.
So if we expect the efforts from commercial interests resisting name changes to be recognised, then the clmbing/hiking community, who get to know the peaks so much more intimately, should really get even greater recognition. Of course they rarely do.
The reason I raised the issue about Mponj and Cathedral was that we could expect the name changing in the case of Cathdral Peak to be hugely resisted because of the hotel. I can't imagine Mponjwane Peak Hotel and Golf Course, spa and trout hatchery catching on in quite the same way to Euro tourists or anyone else who can afford a plate of sandwiches on the terrace.
So if we expect the efforts from commercial interests resisting name changes to be recognised, then the clmbing/hiking community, who get to know the peaks so much more intimately, should really get even greater recognition. Of course they rarely do.
Last edit: 18 Feb 2011 11:27 by tiska.
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09 Mar 2011 07:53 - 09 Mar 2011 08:27 #2536
by intrepid
Take nothing but litter, leave nothing but a cleaner Drakensberg.
Replied by intrepid on topic Re: Should Sterkhorn be renamed Mount Mandela?
Attached is a PDF containing 3 different articles from the media on this proposal.
MOTH have suggested that Cathkin be renamed Mount Mandela, since Sterkhon/Mount Memory was an important memorial to them. Sentinel is now also considered to have "merit" to get this new name.
Furthermore, Tungay has also proposed that Sterkhorn's middle summit be named "Mount Mendi" after the ship that collided with with another ship in dense fog during World War I, killing 607 people on board. Honestly, of all names to propose, this one seems way off!
Considering the points made on this thread, and ongoing email conversations I've had with various people, I have to say I increasingly don't like where this is heading. We've seen enough renaming in our country, and Sterkhorn and Cathkin are neutral names that have a very long history. If anything, lets rather call Cathkin by its other name, Mdedelelo. This also sets a precedent for renaming of other peaks, and the thought of having a Mount Malema or a Mount Winnie, is a thought which concerns many, and given some of preposterous ideas already tolerated by our government, this doesn't seem far off.
I also do not appreciate that Mr Tungay feels that between him and the the MOTH organisation these kind of decisions can be made. There are many other stakeholders, let alone the MCSA, many hiking clubs, and the community represented on this site - the people who are well acquainted with these peaks.
MOTH have suggested that Cathkin be renamed Mount Mandela, since Sterkhon/Mount Memory was an important memorial to them. Sentinel is now also considered to have "merit" to get this new name.
Furthermore, Tungay has also proposed that Sterkhorn's middle summit be named "Mount Mendi" after the ship that collided with with another ship in dense fog during World War I, killing 607 people on board. Honestly, of all names to propose, this one seems way off!
Considering the points made on this thread, and ongoing email conversations I've had with various people, I have to say I increasingly don't like where this is heading. We've seen enough renaming in our country, and Sterkhorn and Cathkin are neutral names that have a very long history. If anything, lets rather call Cathkin by its other name, Mdedelelo. This also sets a precedent for renaming of other peaks, and the thought of having a Mount Malema or a Mount Winnie, is a thought which concerns many, and given some of preposterous ideas already tolerated by our government, this doesn't seem far off.
I also do not appreciate that Mr Tungay feels that between him and the the MOTH organisation these kind of decisions can be made. There are many other stakeholders, let alone the MCSA, many hiking clubs, and the community represented on this site - the people who are well acquainted with these peaks.
Take nothing but litter, leave nothing but a cleaner Drakensberg.
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Last edit: 09 Mar 2011 08:27 by intrepid.
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09 Mar 2011 08:26 - 09 Mar 2011 11:59 #2537
by tiska
Replied by tiska on topic Re: Should Sterkhorn be renamed Mount Mandela?
Well here we go - the politicians are going to be queueing up for their bit of basalt.
Some interesting comments from Martin Winter:
"
Another letter writer Martin Winter says: “The history of the naming of Cathkin Peak is an interesting one that dates back to 1863, so surely this should be left to stand.
“It is no way politically offensive and it is part of the history of the mountain, having been named by people with a keen interest in the mountain at the time.
“It would indeed be unwise to set a precedent of renaming Drakensberg peaks after prominent South Africans no matter how great their services may have been.
“A present or future authority could well ignore or over-ride years of pioneering history that had gone before.”
Winter notes that Cathkin Peak features frequently in the Journals of the Mountain Club of South Africa that commenced in 1897.
“The first ascent of Cathkin Peak in 1912 would have been recorded in the annals of the Drakensberg Club formed in 1910 and later in 1919, by the Natal Mountain Club.
“The naming, and particularly the renaming of peaks in the Drakensberg, should be the concern of those organisations whose aims are, amongst others, 'to initiate and support the actions towards the protecting the natural beauty and wilderness character of the mountains', or at the very least, in consultation with them.”
www.iol.co.za/travel/south-africa/kwazulu-natal/a-mountain-fit-for-madiba-1.1038513
I have a great deal of respect for Mr Winter. I cannot say the same for any politicians.
Some interesting comments from Martin Winter:
"
Another letter writer Martin Winter says: “The history of the naming of Cathkin Peak is an interesting one that dates back to 1863, so surely this should be left to stand.
“It is no way politically offensive and it is part of the history of the mountain, having been named by people with a keen interest in the mountain at the time.
“It would indeed be unwise to set a precedent of renaming Drakensberg peaks after prominent South Africans no matter how great their services may have been.
“A present or future authority could well ignore or over-ride years of pioneering history that had gone before.”
Winter notes that Cathkin Peak features frequently in the Journals of the Mountain Club of South Africa that commenced in 1897.
“The first ascent of Cathkin Peak in 1912 would have been recorded in the annals of the Drakensberg Club formed in 1910 and later in 1919, by the Natal Mountain Club.
“The naming, and particularly the renaming of peaks in the Drakensberg, should be the concern of those organisations whose aims are, amongst others, 'to initiate and support the actions towards the protecting the natural beauty and wilderness character of the mountains', or at the very least, in consultation with them.”
www.iol.co.za/travel/south-africa/kwazulu-natal/a-mountain-fit-for-madiba-1.1038513
I have a great deal of respect for Mr Winter. I cannot say the same for any politicians.
Last edit: 09 Mar 2011 11:59 by tiska.
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09 Mar 2011 09:32 #2538
by fatshark
Replied by fatshark on topic Re: Should Sterkhorn be renamed Mount Mandela?
If there is ANY peak that should be renamed to honour Madiba, its TABLE MOUNTAIN. Or Devil's Peak / Lion's Head.
Reasons:
1 - Proximity to Robben Island;
2 - Arguably the most recognisable mountain complex (or geographical feature, period) in the nation. Its as iconic as Big Ben or Statue of Liberty.
3 - Overlooks Tuynhuys, Parliament etc (fitting for such a political figurehead).
4 - Slap bang in the middle of our 2nd biggest city which is also most visited by tourists, therefore more exposure.
5 - Table Mountain is a crap name anyways
As part of a range with few free-standing peaks, none of the Berg mountains are as iconic, and all are comparatively out-of-the-way.
As to the thought of other politicians getting peaks renamed after themselves, its awful. But its one thing to rename a road - change a few signs and after a couple of years everyone adopts the new name. (anyone here still call Beyers Naude drive "DF Malan"?) But new political names for mountains? That would be far more difficult to get people to adopt. The hiking/climbing fraternity wouldn't, and I can't see the local Ngwane giving a rats ass if they were told that the mountain in whose shadow they've lived for centuries is suddenly changed.
(personally, i'd only refer to the new name when nature calls, as in "sorry chaps, need to go take a dump on Mount <you know who>"
- Mandela obviously excluded)
Reasons:
1 - Proximity to Robben Island;
2 - Arguably the most recognisable mountain complex (or geographical feature, period) in the nation. Its as iconic as Big Ben or Statue of Liberty.
3 - Overlooks Tuynhuys, Parliament etc (fitting for such a political figurehead).
4 - Slap bang in the middle of our 2nd biggest city which is also most visited by tourists, therefore more exposure.
5 - Table Mountain is a crap name anyways
As part of a range with few free-standing peaks, none of the Berg mountains are as iconic, and all are comparatively out-of-the-way.
As to the thought of other politicians getting peaks renamed after themselves, its awful. But its one thing to rename a road - change a few signs and after a couple of years everyone adopts the new name. (anyone here still call Beyers Naude drive "DF Malan"?) But new political names for mountains? That would be far more difficult to get people to adopt. The hiking/climbing fraternity wouldn't, and I can't see the local Ngwane giving a rats ass if they were told that the mountain in whose shadow they've lived for centuries is suddenly changed.
(personally, i'd only refer to the new name when nature calls, as in "sorry chaps, need to go take a dump on Mount <you know who>"
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09 Mar 2011 11:32 #2539
by tiska
Replied by tiska on topic Re: Should Sterkhorn be renamed Mount Mandela?
and once we have Mnt Malema and Mnt Winnie in place, brace yourself for the cable car......
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10 Mar 2011 06:42 #2549
by intrepid
Take nothing but litter, leave nothing but a cleaner Drakensberg.
Replied by intrepid on topic Re: Should Sterkhorn be renamed Mount Mandela?
The cable car idea has been around for several years, candidates being Sentinel, the Mnweni (North Peak of Saddle), and the QwaQwa area. We'll tackle this a little later on this forum - we have to maintain a strong outrage against it. The Mnweni High Berg should be incorporated into the UDP, or at least fall under KZN Wildlife conservation management, that should keep it out of the Mnweni. QwaQwa is more vulnerable...
Take nothing but litter, leave nothing but a cleaner Drakensberg.
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