Which cave is Five Star Cave?

12 Oct 2011 18:38 #4330 by tonymarshall

Which cave is Five Star Cave? was created by tonymarshall

After my recent Mnweni Trip, I was marking up the route on my map records, and cross referenced some of the caves visited with the Drakensberg Caves GPS co-ordinates list. I was surprised to find the given co-ordinates and elevations for Five Star Cave and what I know as Dagga Planters Cave (sometimes referred to as Dagga Smugglers Cave) appear to be reversed.

I am well acquainted with Five Star cave and don't believe I have misidentified this cave, outside view above and inside part view below.

The cave I know as Dagga Planters Cave is shown below, and is almost directly above Five Star Cave on the same ridge.

This photo shows the ridge at the confluence of the Mbundini and Mnweni Rivers, with Dagga Planters Cave in the centre of the picture, and Five Star Cave to the bottom right in the lower rock band.

Can anyone assist in verifying these caves and GPS co-ordinates? Is there a third cave below Five Star Cave, as the co-ordinates suggest, that is the real Dagga Planters Cave, or are the co-ordinates for the two caves inadvertantly swopped around?

Please login or register to view the images attached to this post.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

tonymarshall
Topic Author
Offline
VE Advisory

13 Oct 2011 06:14 #4333 by Stijn

Replied by Stijn on topic Which cave is Five Star Cave?

As marked on the maps, the cave you refer to as 5 star cave is named as such and Dagga Planter's Cave is not marked. I think the confusion has arisen as nobody in their right mind would call the lower cave 5 star! While the upper cave is also not really deserving of this title, it is a lot roomier than that ash-filled lower cave.

Hence I have always referred to the upper one as 5 star cave and don't care to refer to the lower one at all...

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Stijn
Offline
Platinum Member

13 Oct 2011 07:47 #4335 by tonymarshall

Replied by tonymarshall on topic Which cave is Five Star Cave?

Thanks Stijn,

I tend to share your sentiments, was just wondering.

By the way, there is now a huge newly planted dagga field on the terrace below the lower cave towards the Mbundini River - living up to it's name!

Would welcome comments from anyone else on these two caves.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

tonymarshall
Topic Author
Offline
VE Advisory

13 Oct 2011 10:43 #4341 by Boerkie

Replied by Boerkie on topic Which cave is Five Star Cave?

Hi Tony

I can only supply with the coordinates I have for these caves, you can then check them against what you have.

Dagga Planters
S28 51.653 E28 59.654 (1802m)
Five star
S28 51.677 E28 59.645 (1830m)

Regarding the dagga plantation you mention..
The lawlessness of the Berg (and country) is ridiculous and even worse is the authorities inability to do something about it!!!! :evil:

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Boerkie
Offline
Elite Member

13 Oct 2011 11:46 - 13 Oct 2011 11:57 #4343 by intrepid

Replied by intrepid on topic Which cave is Five Star Cave?

Am also hoping for more input here as I'm aware of conflicting ideas around these caves, not just which is which, but also which is the better cave! I've heard exact opposite opinions from some older Berg sages. :cheer:

I actually enjoy Berg mysteries and ambiguities, and there are several just on Mnweni Caves, in addition to this one: Rwanqa Cave(s), the caves of Ifidi, Grasscutter's vs Jubilee.

My original conclusion was that the upper one was 5-Star. "Dagga Planter's Cave" was a name which I assigned the lower one simply for the sake of referring to it. The nearby dagga fields need little introduction. That this name, or variations of it, is in circulation may just be coincidental and natural given its association with the dagga, or perhaps people have adopted the name from the cave data download which I originally published on the site a few years back now. I'm trying to find out what the locals call these caves and will let you guys know if I find out anything.

Version 2 of the new hiking maps actually refers to the upper one as 5-Star cave too, but this doesn't necessarily mean that its correct! In the first edition of Map No 1 5-Star Cave was marked where Dagga Planters now is (but again - this was not accurate). In fact both caves are wrongly placed on the current version of the map. They would both be further upstream and a tad higher up on the slopes. Also the lower one should be closer to the upper one. This area has many unmarked caves in fact, but none that I've managed to find where they have marked the lower one - that's just river bed.

Question to everyone that is convinced that 5-Star is the lower one: how did you arrive at that conclusion? Was it from the maps or handed-down tradition?

So I'm gonna review this and chat to some people. In the mean time any further enlightenment from a shy forum crawler is welcome.

Take nothing but litter, leave nothing but a cleaner Drakensberg.

Last edit: 13 Oct 2011 11:57 by intrepid.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

intrepid
Offline
Administrator

13 Oct 2011 12:47 #4345 by tonymarshall

Replied by tonymarshall on topic Which cave is Five Star Cave?

Thanks Boerkie and Intrepid.

Boerkie's co-ordinates are the same as those I compared in the VE Drakensberg Caves GPS co-ordinates. The positions are very close, barely separable when plotted on a 1:50 000 map, and it was the elevations that got me wondering. I don't have a gps so don't have co-ordinates of my own.

I learn't the names from tradition (hiking with more experienced hikers etc), who also aren't necessarily correct. What further leads to the confusion is the photographs of the lower cave for Five Star Cave on two authorative 'Berg websites.

I have overnighted in the lower cave, and up to four people have been
very comfortable there, although only in good weather! As stated above, I agree with Stijn and would consider the upper cave to be the better of the two in terms of space and openness/view, although with a small disadvantage when it comes to the extra slog up the slope carrying a night's water.

I'm sure many of us eagerly await the outcome of your investigation, Intrepid, but for now I change my tradition based view and adopt the more logical view that the upper cave is Five Star Cave.

I, among many others, think the Ifidi Caves issue has been quite neatly addressed by your authorative and definative article 'The Caves of Ifidi', although I suppose no-one will ever really know for sure which specific cave was originally named Ifidi Cave.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

tonymarshall
Topic Author
Offline
VE Advisory

13 Oct 2011 13:10 - 13 Oct 2011 13:11 #4348 by intrepid

Replied by intrepid on topic Which cave is Five Star Cave?

There definitely is a school of tradition pointing to the lower one being 5-Star, so don't change your view just yet, I may just change mine :cheer:

Re Ifidi Cave, yes thats the fun mystery: the original "Ifidi Cave" might have been the "false" one, Veranda Cave, or the main, big one.

Take nothing but litter, leave nothing but a cleaner Drakensberg.

Last edit: 13 Oct 2011 13:11 by intrepid.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

intrepid
Offline
Administrator

13 Oct 2011 13:13 #4349 by tiska

Replied by tiska on topic Which cave is Five Star Cave?

there's also the mysterious Trenchers Cave on Cathedral to add to the mix....

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

tiska
Offline
Platinum Member

14 Oct 2011 05:18 #4354 by Magan

Replied by Magan on topic Which cave is Five Star Cave?

On my 1st trip to Mnweni, I enlisted the help of Mr Dlamini from Mnweni to help me find my way through the kraals, after a few 100mtrs on crossing the Mnweni river, he pointed out the upper one as Five Star cave before he headed back.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.