Drakensberg FKTs - Definition and Rules

Highlands Fanatic wrote: I do think the starting point should be relevant to the challenge. I take the Mponjwane climb as example: this is started from the adjacent Mponjwane cave, definitely the starting point used by most if not all.

I do think the starting point should be relevant to the challenge. I take the Mponjwane climb as example: this is started from the adjacent Mponjwane cave, definitely the starting point used by most if not all.

And I keep on harping about the Beacon Buttress example I gave earlier, maybe I'm the only one doing such things and, if so, it is irrelevant, but to start this from the carpark changes the dynamic of it: It changes from a sprint to an endurance event. I'm good at the former, incompetent at the latter.

I rate that no record should encourage dangerous practices. One thing that makes me wary with the 9 provinces record is that it encourages a group of people who are exhausted after motoring up Namahadi, Mafadi and KwaDuma on consecutive days to drive fast on the dodgy roads around Matatiele if they want to break the record. Cows in the road, potholes, exhausted drivers possibly driving at night - it is asking for trouble.

In the same way - I agree that Mponjwane should logically have a speed record measured from Mponjwane Cave to avoid a tired climber having to do a multi-pitch trad route after slogging up Rockeries with all the gear. That beings said - if someone does it from the car park to the top and back to the car park in 24 hours, that is incredible and can definitely be seen as a record. We all know Mnt_Tiska's has done Bell in under 1 calendar day starting and stopping the timer at his house.

With a route like Beacon Buttress Gully - the walkin is short, so logically a record should be for a round trip (perhaps looped with the chain ladders and Beacon Buttress Peak). I have personally done Langies summit cairn to the waterfall at the base in 23 minutes (can't claim it as a FKT as Hobbit beat me by about 20 seconds anyway) - but that would be an arbitrary record when a full route can be done as a day trip, which I have personally done on 5 occasions (if someone wants to count arbitrary FKTs on Thumb Spur, Bond, Potterill, Erskine or Thumb Pass - be my guest).

Also remember that not all records require great speed - there is a record for longest GT (in days and in km), most khulus on a GT, most GTs, oldest person to do a GT (seeing as most VE members probably can't go for youngest - 15 years and a few months) etc.

When we set out on our GT in December and decided to go for the most khulus record - I knew it would be hard to keep up with Andrew. As it turns out he ended on 63 vs my 51. But now I know what is required to beat that record, and if/when I go for it again, I will train harder and make sure that I get it (and if Andrew is in the team, I must at least match what he does). In no way do I hold anything against Andrew for taking a record I was shooting for - if I want to achieve something meaningful, I must work harder next time. If others lower the bar to help me, it would defeat the purpose of pushing myself further.

On a side note - I do still rate that I held that most khulus record for about 20 seconds - a GT is only completed when you tag the fence, and I tagged it before Andrew

Good luck CornelvHeerden

@Intrepid. Sadly, I have not yet made it into ANY of the pools in the Yoodlers valley. I keep passing through at the wrong time of day.

@Dillon. The only time I have ever actually gone up Leslies was last year Oct or Nov. I was not as fit then as now, but was fit enough to get the message that this will never be a fast pass for me. Vegetation slows me down a lot. I could probably do Mafadi faster via Leslies than my current time via Apes (I could probably do that faster as well though), but I doubt I could do either of them faster than Judges.

I agree that starting at a mountain register for Didema area is most likely silly. The idea for me at least is to use a point that can be replicated if starting at the same area (or if possible to use another completely different starting point then a comparative point).

So, for the speed GT, it was decided a long time ago that the gates would apply rather than the mountain registers. In each case, you have to pass through those specific gates as the "pass" is chosen anyway, so this is fine. A mountain register gives a constant point though if you could use different pathes such as when I went up Apes and down Leslies for the previous Mafadi record.

For climbs, I think the best is that the person setting the initial record uses something sensible. Mponjwe cave makes sense for Mponjwane as most people use that as a base, but there could be a completely different FKT when someone actually manages to pull it off in a day from Jhb. Also consider though that sometimes someone else may use a different climbing route just to mess it about.

I'm confused now.

Is this thread about records of all sorts, or Fastest Known Times? I may have lost the lead along the way, but I thought it was about FKT's.

Ghaznavid, you quote my post and then make first up a statement on dangerous practices?

Again...confused.

@Dillon, awesome. Also going down tomorrow, and will be staying about 1km from Monk's Cowl. My brother only arrives on Saturday, so will be hiking up early Sunday morning with a few people. Always welcome to join us!

@Andrew, thank you Andrew. Ha, this is like running around my house compared to what you have achieved, however I can't wait to get some mountain dirt under my feet.

@Highlands Fanatic, I think that this thread is still trying to establish itself. I think all that Ghaznavid wanted to bring across, is that any attempted FKT or record should still be practiced with caution, and should the records not be dangerous in order to encourage further dangerous behavior. It is already more risky to try and complete any kind of record in the mountains at a high speed, however one should try and avoid adding any additional safety issues.

Highlands Fanatic wrote: Ghaznavid, you quote my post and then make first up a statement on dangerous practices?

Ok reading that again I take your point

What I am saying is that I agree with your comment re the Mponjwane record for various reasons (including that the record has been established with that rule) - but one of which is safety.

The first 3 paragraphs were intended as a reply to your post - but once again, that isn't entirely clear from the post. The last 2 paragraphs are the normal "Ghaznavid waffling"

ghaznavid wrote: @Andrew: perhaps a standard set of rules for each peak specific speed record is an idea? Thabana is different as it is in Lesotho and thus Sani Stones or Sani Mountain Lodge are logical start points (although one could do it from Vergelegen if they really wanted to).

I don't know the FKT on most of the routes I mentioned, but just to throw out some numbers in the hope that you guys will challenge me based on what others that you know (or you personally) have done:
- Mafadi 6h22 (AndrewP)
- Namahadi about 10 hours (KobusB on his 9 summits solo record trip)
- Cleft Peak approx 14 hours (AndrewP from Sentinel Car Park in September last year)
- Sterkhorn approx 5 hours (Stijn)
- Giants Castle 14 hours (doubtful that this is the fastest, but this has been done)
- Thabana Ntlenyana 12 hours by practically everyone moderately fit staying at Sani Top
- Both Hodgesons from Sani Mountain Lodge 6 hours (myself and a lady from MCSA, easter weekend this year)
- Rhino something like 11 hours (Intrepid - up Rhino Pass down Mashia Pass)
- Thaba Ngwangwe 13 hours (Kiktrak, Hobbit - 11 years old at the time, and myself)

As I mentioned, the above are the fastest times that I know of personally - anyone who knows of faster times, please post so we can establish a good starting point.

Just a correction... Our Sterkhorn hike time from Injisuthi was almost 9 hours return. It has definitely been done much faster from Monk's Cowl.

Stijn wrote: Our Sterkhorn hike time from Injisuthi was almost 9 hours return. It has definitely been done much faster from Monk's Cowl.

Thanks for confirming your time. I must have been confusing this one with something else you did around the same time, not sure what.

Not sure who is behind this "RHINO, The Peak" initiative, but I think the entire point is being missed:
www.ar.co.za/2015/09/rhino-peak-fkt/
www.rhinothepeak.co.za/

Explore that website a bit and you'll see plenty mention of authorised routes, certification, medals, etc, all for a fee of R450 should you wish to register your time on their "official" leaderboard. They do say that the money is in aid of path maintenance and rhino conservation, but commercialising the FKT concept is going against the entire spirit of the idea.

I have no problem with them organising a race along the route, charging for it, and even making a handsome profit. Just don't try to apply the same concept to the ancient tradition of trying to beat your mate's time up a hill... (for free, at any time you wish to go for it)

It's probably off the back of Red Bull recently making the concept quite mainstream in SA with the Ryan Sandes Table Mountain FKT.

So let's continue the honesty system method of recording FKTs (on this site and others), and keep the money out of it. I'll add Mark Michell's current Rhino Peak FKT (kzntrailrunning.co.za/blog/drakensberg-fkt-s/259-rhino-peak) to VE's FKT thread as the more inclusive alternative to this "official leaderboard" nonsense.

Edit: The first line on their homepage just cracks me up: "The world’s only mountain peak over 3000 metres named for the Rhino is secured for rhino conservation."

Thanks for sharing Stijn. 3h 10m 03s is an awesome time!

Re the KZN Trail Running post - odd that they show Rhino Pass as the route, surely Mashai Pass would be much faster? The track also doesn't appear to go to the summit cairn. I might be missing something!