Avoiding problems
19 Apr 2012 09:01 - 19 Apr 2012 09:05 #53612
by tiska
Avoiding problems was created by tiska
Intrepid: This reply might not belong on this thread.
I have been thinking about the issue of smugglers and whether it is wise to camp away from the tops of the well used passes even if you don't mind these guys being nearby. Granted the smugglers don't seem to have a track-record of stealing kit as they are generally on a mission of their own. But there is another reason that given the choice, it might be better for hikers to stay away from the areas known to be frequented by those living/working etc near the escarpment edge. The basic argument is that stealing from hikers develops as a habit by the poorly equipped people in Lesotho. The best way to defend against the problem is to take active steps to prevent exposure to the theft so that it can't become a habit in the first place. And those active steps are to camp away from areas known to be frequented.
There are at least two areas in the northern Berg where stealing/aggression is an issue and has been an issue for many years - the Amphitheatre and Bannerman/Giants. In the case of the Amphitheatre, the reason is probably that there is such a reliable supply of hikers camping out that theft missions are worth doing. The Giant's area is harder to explain other than it simply having become a habit.
Imagine if you were part of a clan of youngsters living in Lesotho near the escarpment edge. Winter was coming and on the 100+ cold winter nights the only thing you can think about is being cold. This is surely a distinct reality. It is brutally cold there. Two of the guys went off one night and raided some hikers tents. For the rest of the winter those guys enjoyed a down jacket, pair of gloves and a fleece each. Winter was not such a big deal for them. The other guys would need a lot of restraint not to want to go and fetch themselves a bit of gear next time the opportunity presented itself.
How can this situation be constrained? Well once two guys have themselves a down jacket and a pair of gloves and their mates don't, it is more or less out of our hands. The trick on our side is not to camp habitually in places where there is known presence and traffic even if we don't particularly mind the traffic or are not intimidated by it. The cycle has to be stopped before it is started.
I have been thinking about the issue of smugglers and whether it is wise to camp away from the tops of the well used passes even if you don't mind these guys being nearby. Granted the smugglers don't seem to have a track-record of stealing kit as they are generally on a mission of their own. But there is another reason that given the choice, it might be better for hikers to stay away from the areas known to be frequented by those living/working etc near the escarpment edge. The basic argument is that stealing from hikers develops as a habit by the poorly equipped people in Lesotho. The best way to defend against the problem is to take active steps to prevent exposure to the theft so that it can't become a habit in the first place. And those active steps are to camp away from areas known to be frequented.
There are at least two areas in the northern Berg where stealing/aggression is an issue and has been an issue for many years - the Amphitheatre and Bannerman/Giants. In the case of the Amphitheatre, the reason is probably that there is such a reliable supply of hikers camping out that theft missions are worth doing. The Giant's area is harder to explain other than it simply having become a habit.
Imagine if you were part of a clan of youngsters living in Lesotho near the escarpment edge. Winter was coming and on the 100+ cold winter nights the only thing you can think about is being cold. This is surely a distinct reality. It is brutally cold there. Two of the guys went off one night and raided some hikers tents. For the rest of the winter those guys enjoyed a down jacket, pair of gloves and a fleece each. Winter was not such a big deal for them. The other guys would need a lot of restraint not to want to go and fetch themselves a bit of gear next time the opportunity presented itself.
How can this situation be constrained? Well once two guys have themselves a down jacket and a pair of gloves and their mates don't, it is more or less out of our hands. The trick on our side is not to camp habitually in places where there is known presence and traffic even if we don't particularly mind the traffic or are not intimidated by it. The cycle has to be stopped before it is started.
Last edit: 19 Apr 2012 09:05 by tiska.
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03 May 2012 12:46 - 03 May 2012 12:47 #53718
by intrepid
Take nothing but litter, leave nothing but a cleaner Drakensberg.
Replied by intrepid on topic Re: Avoiding problems
@mnt_tiska: I've moved your post from the Berg Alert thread to a new one as you suggested.
Yes I think generally this is a sound approach which we should follow as much as possible. Sometimes its difficult to judge if they are around or not, but mostly we can pick a good camp spot regardless. Does require a good awareness of the routes that they use.
Important to note though that the problems at Amphitheatre and Giants Castle are shepherd-related, these are more difficult to avoid. In the Organ Pipes / Ndedema area it is smuggler-related on the other hand, and many of these could have been avoided by a more secluded campsite.
Yes I think generally this is a sound approach which we should follow as much as possible. Sometimes its difficult to judge if they are around or not, but mostly we can pick a good camp spot regardless. Does require a good awareness of the routes that they use.
Important to note though that the problems at Amphitheatre and Giants Castle are shepherd-related, these are more difficult to avoid. In the Organ Pipes / Ndedema area it is smuggler-related on the other hand, and many of these could have been avoided by a more secluded campsite.
Take nothing but litter, leave nothing but a cleaner Drakensberg.
Last edit: 03 May 2012 12:47 by intrepid.
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03 May 2012 14:58 #53720
by HFc
Replied by HFc on topic Re: Avoiding problems
Hi Guys
I have a question half related to this topic. I am taking some family members up the Amphitheatre route again soon, however this is only a day trip, so, no camping involved. I have done at least 6-7 times with various group sizes in the past and during the day have never even encountered shepherds, with the only exception when we did Namahadi pass some years ago.
Now the question, the theft I assume only occurs at night, but the mention of the word 'aggression' has me a bit concerned. If aggression is present it may imply that day visitors can also be targeted. Or am I hopefully wrong?
(PS. I can't expect you to answer knowing exactly what goes on in these aggressors mind's, but historically, are the issues only for overnight campers on the escarpment or is this becoming an issue during the day as well?)
I have a question half related to this topic. I am taking some family members up the Amphitheatre route again soon, however this is only a day trip, so, no camping involved. I have done at least 6-7 times with various group sizes in the past and during the day have never even encountered shepherds, with the only exception when we did Namahadi pass some years ago.
Now the question, the theft I assume only occurs at night, but the mention of the word 'aggression' has me a bit concerned. If aggression is present it may imply that day visitors can also be targeted. Or am I hopefully wrong?
(PS. I can't expect you to answer knowing exactly what goes on in these aggressors mind's, but historically, are the issues only for overnight campers on the escarpment or is this becoming an issue during the day as well?)
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03 May 2012 15:34 #53724
by anthony
Replied by anthony on topic Re: Avoiding problems
The best advice is always to be aware of your surrounding's, been humble and friendly gets you a long way.
I feel a lot safer on the berg than in my own back garden in gauteng,that said there is always the minority that could pose a threat.
I feel a lot safer on the berg than in my own back garden in gauteng,that said there is always the minority that could pose a threat.
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04 May 2012 06:59 - 04 May 2012 07:33 #53732
by ghaznavid
Replied by ghaznavid on topic Re: Avoiding problems
Warning: Spoiler!
On an entire grand traverse of the Berg I only saw about 20 Basothu's, only 1 was unfriendly and almost none where in the northern Berg. I don't think there is enough water for the shepherds to hang around the Amphitheater right now, Tugela Falls currently is more like the second highest damp rock face in the world...
Last edit: 04 May 2012 07:33 by ghaznavid.
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04 May 2012 07:15 - 04 May 2012 07:17 #53733
by Smurfatefrog
Replied by Smurfatefrog on topic Re: Avoiding problems
Ghaz, you giving away spoilers!
On a side note, you mentioned someone gave them cigs on the GT, did they specifically take them for that reason? Something light & cheap to keep them happy
On a side note, you mentioned someone gave them cigs on the GT, did they specifically take them for that reason? Something light & cheap to keep them happy
Last edit: 04 May 2012 07:17 by Smurfatefrog.
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04 May 2012 07:32 - 04 May 2012 07:35 #53734
by ghaznavid
Replied by ghaznavid on topic Re: Avoiding problems
Sorry my last post is now in a spoiler...
Although I deliberately did not elaborate on what happened with that unfriendly Basotho, my next part of the story may provide more insight...
John (the group leader) carried cigs specially for the locals, they are light weight and it is what they normally ask for...
Although I deliberately did not elaborate on what happened with that unfriendly Basotho, my next part of the story may provide more insight...
John (the group leader) carried cigs specially for the locals, they are light weight and it is what they normally ask for...
Last edit: 04 May 2012 07:35 by ghaznavid.
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04 May 2012 07:41 #53735
by intrepid
Take nothing but litter, leave nothing but a cleaner Drakensberg.
Replied by intrepid on topic Re: Avoiding problems
Let me start off by saying that the Basotho people are generally warm and friendly and I encourage everyone to travel Lesotho and discover the little gem that it is. As in any country and among any culture there are those who commit crime. Compared to South Africa, Lesotho possibly has less crime in general, and compared to what is happening in various parts of SA, crime towards hikers and climbers in the Berg is not too bad right now and certainly not as severe. I think you stand a higher chance of suffering some sort of "aggression" on Table Mountain or in the Magaliesberg right now. Certainly it does happen in the Berg, but the likelihood is more that the crime towards us will be of a petty nature.
@RRankin: if you are talking specifically about the Amphitheatre, yes the problems are mostly at night. I have heard several reports of hikers feeling harassed by some Basotho up there during the day, basically they wanted stuff from the hikers, but these were not acts of aggression in the sense that a crime was committed. I don't think this needs to be a deterrent for you.
I think being polite and friendly is very important. Greet them and interact a little. I don't believe they need handouts but this can be communicated in a friendly manner. You can say for example that you don't have any food, or only enough for yourself, rather than refuse altogether. Don't show annoyance if they hang around a little. Be tolerant. If they become a too pushy then bid them farewell and try move off to some place where hopefully they will grow tired of following you around.
@RRankin: if you are talking specifically about the Amphitheatre, yes the problems are mostly at night. I have heard several reports of hikers feeling harassed by some Basotho up there during the day, basically they wanted stuff from the hikers, but these were not acts of aggression in the sense that a crime was committed. I don't think this needs to be a deterrent for you.
I think being polite and friendly is very important. Greet them and interact a little. I don't believe they need handouts but this can be communicated in a friendly manner. You can say for example that you don't have any food, or only enough for yourself, rather than refuse altogether. Don't show annoyance if they hang around a little. Be tolerant. If they become a too pushy then bid them farewell and try move off to some place where hopefully they will grow tired of following you around.
Take nothing but litter, leave nothing but a cleaner Drakensberg.
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04 May 2012 15:32 #53740
by HFc
Replied by HFc on topic Re: Avoiding problems
Thanks for the reply Intrepid.
Yes I agree 100%, the odd lonesome or twosome Basotho herders are hardly a problem. They generally are a bit bored and as such like to interact a bit. Some of them speak English rather well! This has never been a problem and they are indeed free to ask for some food or sweets etc, the same way we are allowed to refuse to give anything, as long as both directions of communication are handled OK.
We certainly won't be deterred in going up the escarpment if inquisitive herders are the only issue (which is no issue at all). It is only if armed agressors are around that we would stop going. Your answer seems to alay this concern.
Thanks
Yes I agree 100%, the odd lonesome or twosome Basotho herders are hardly a problem. They generally are a bit bored and as such like to interact a bit. Some of them speak English rather well! This has never been a problem and they are indeed free to ask for some food or sweets etc, the same way we are allowed to refuse to give anything, as long as both directions of communication are handled OK.
We certainly won't be deterred in going up the escarpment if inquisitive herders are the only issue (which is no issue at all). It is only if armed agressors are around that we would stop going. Your answer seems to alay this concern.
Thanks
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15 May 2012 13:14 #53885
by Mattalica
Replied by Mattalica on topic Re: Avoiding problems
In the past I have found some really good info on this website and after my trip to the berg this past weekend, I value it that much more.
I went up to mnweni to do a simple overnight hike and then to camp the next evening with some mates that did that insane trail run race. The two of us where unable to leave early so started the hike late and did not make it the caves at the base of the rockeries. We ended up pitching our tent about 2 KM's shy of the first caves and had a good evening. At about 3 am we heard a lot of people somewhere nearby in the valley which was a bit un-nerving, but in the end nothing came of it. In the morning it was pretty clear that some herbs had been delivered down the hill, as everyone was returning up the mountain at first light. Some went up a seperate valley and others closer to us. We believe that a few had returned after their "delivery" and slept pretty close to where we camped. When we had a look around the area in the morning they saw us and later sent someone to check us out. They then all moved to where they could watch us from above which was pretty unpleasant. Eventually they all moved off and all the Donkies R us guys where gone and we ended up finishing our hike in good spirits with no bad news to tell our friends.
Now the point of my post is that from all the tips and advise that I've read on the forums I have become better informed in general and with regards to security it may very well have prevented a really crappy situation from happening. If I had not done some reading over the past few months I would have probably been pretty slack when choosing a place to camp, and been careless in leaving things lying around ect ect...but I've taken security seriously since reading up and it has changed my behaviour when I go hiking and I think I am better off, as I really had no clue. So for me - "Avoiding Problems" is learning from others, sharing experiences, making your own conclusions from it and then changing your behaviour- I think we're on the right path.
Matt
I went up to mnweni to do a simple overnight hike and then to camp the next evening with some mates that did that insane trail run race. The two of us where unable to leave early so started the hike late and did not make it the caves at the base of the rockeries. We ended up pitching our tent about 2 KM's shy of the first caves and had a good evening. At about 3 am we heard a lot of people somewhere nearby in the valley which was a bit un-nerving, but in the end nothing came of it. In the morning it was pretty clear that some herbs had been delivered down the hill, as everyone was returning up the mountain at first light. Some went up a seperate valley and others closer to us. We believe that a few had returned after their "delivery" and slept pretty close to where we camped. When we had a look around the area in the morning they saw us and later sent someone to check us out. They then all moved to where they could watch us from above which was pretty unpleasant. Eventually they all moved off and all the Donkies R us guys where gone and we ended up finishing our hike in good spirits with no bad news to tell our friends.
Now the point of my post is that from all the tips and advise that I've read on the forums I have become better informed in general and with regards to security it may very well have prevented a really crappy situation from happening. If I had not done some reading over the past few months I would have probably been pretty slack when choosing a place to camp, and been careless in leaving things lying around ect ect...but I've taken security seriously since reading up and it has changed my behaviour when I go hiking and I think I am better off, as I really had no clue. So for me - "Avoiding Problems" is learning from others, sharing experiences, making your own conclusions from it and then changing your behaviour- I think we're on the right path.
Matt
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