The Carbineers

25 May 2012 14:16 #54068 by ghaznavid
The Carbineers was created by ghaznavid
Branching off from the khulu thread...

According to the map the Carbineers south of Durnford are as follows (Langalibalele being the 3156m unnamed peak under discussion):

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25 May 2012 14:29 #54069 by intrepid
Replied by intrepid on topic Re: The Carbineers
According to which map? They differ. :laugh:

Will get some references together to show you what I mean.

Take nothing but litter, leave nothing but a cleaner Drakensberg.

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25 May 2012 14:33 #54072 by ghaznavid
Replied by ghaznavid on topic Re: The Carbineers
I realised that I had forgotten to mention which map shortly after posting... The EKZN latest edition map, which as we all know is so accurate that its missing an entire river on the route to Sleeping Beauty Cave...

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26 May 2012 07:06 - 26 May 2012 07:37 #54076 by ghaznavid
Replied by ghaznavid on topic Re: The Carbineers
Ok, I have just read up on this in Bill Barnes' Giants Castle: A Personal History.

Katana, Carbineers Point, Kambule, Mount Durnford, Potterill, Bond and Erskine

These seven peaks stand out so well, yet had never been given names.


Clearly what EKZN marks as Erskine can't be Erskine, it doesn't stand out well from the bottom or the top, thus I think the EZKN Bond is actually Erskine, 3156 is Bond, and Porterhill seems to be correct as it is. I am happy with that, I have said for a long time that Erskine is not a real khulu - it makes much more sense this way.
Last edit: 26 May 2012 07:37 by ghaznavid.

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26 May 2012 07:31 #54079 by BobbyStanton
Replied by BobbyStanton on topic Re: The Carbineers
Poor old Carbineer Charles Potterill is turning in his grave at the top of Langilibalele Pass because you keep spelling his name wrongly.
Check your history books.

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18 Jun 2012 08:12 - 18 Jun 2012 08:15 #54373 by intrepid
Replied by intrepid on topic Re: The Carbineers
Here are some references to these peaks.

Government Survey map:


Garmin topographic map:


Slingsby's map:


KZN Wildlife map:


Bristow's map in Drakensberg Walks:


Labelled panorama in Cradle of Rivers by Dodds:



Table of published heights
ReferenceErskineBondPoterill
Survey map3148m3156m3141m
Slingsby's map?3153m3159m
KZN Wildlife map3085m3148m3141m
Drakensberg Walks by Bristow?3153m3159m
Field Guide to Natal Drakensberg, Irwins3095m3153m3159m
Khulu article by Murch in JMCSA 19943148m3156m3159m

There are two main groups here, for arguments sake you could call them the Survey-configuration and the Slingsby-configuration. Ghaznavid's pic is the Slingsby-configuration. This one makes most sense from a map point of view, in that the peaks are a little better defined when looking at contours and spacing (ie Bond and Poterill are not almost on top of each). It also makes more sense from a Khulu definition point of view, but this approach was obviously not in consideration when the peaks were named. KZN Wildlife maps, and the map in Bristow's Drakensberg Walks clearly take their lead from Slingsby's map.

Then there is the Survey-map configuration. This one makes sense from a visual point of view, since when looking at the peaks from below it fits in with Bill Barnes' reference to peaks which "stand out well". This is clearly shown in the labelled panorama from Dodd's Cradle of Rivers. Due to the date of this publication (1975), this may very well have been the influence on the Survey maps, which in turn was used in the Garmin map (Garmin is heavily based on the Survey maps).

So at this point it's a bit of a dead-lock. I think the Survey-map configuration may well be correct but you never know. This will need some more research.

Oh and the name Langalibalele has already been assigned to the Kgolo behind the Carbineers, see Survey map.

Take nothing but litter, leave nothing but a cleaner Drakensberg.

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Last edit: 18 Jun 2012 08:15 by intrepid.
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18 Jun 2012 08:54 #54374 by ghaznavid
Replied by ghaznavid on topic Re: The Carbineers
That was interesting - good to know there is such consensus on the matter :laugh:

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18 Jun 2012 09:19 #54376 by BobbyStanton
Replied by BobbyStanton on topic Re: The Carbineers
Just for interest, the basic spatial data (contours, rivers, spot heights, etc.) that makes up these maps has not changed since the original paper maps were drawn. They were digitised in the 1990's and the digital data can be bought fairly cheaply by anyone from the Surveyor-General (now called something else) in Mowbray. Essentially the data is free but you pay for the DVD on which it is supplied. Slingsby use the same 1:50000 maps but he was pre digital and I'm not sure what technology he used.
You can make your own maps using this data and one of the many free GIS software packages available. Quantum GIS is currently my favourite free package.
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18 Jun 2012 09:45 #54379 by ghaznavid
Replied by ghaznavid on topic Re: The Carbineers
I must give that a shot some time

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18 Jun 2012 14:56 #54399 by brio
Replied by brio on topic Re: The Carbineers

BobbyStanton wrote: ... They were digitised in the 1990's and the digital data can be bought fairly cheaply by anyone from the Surveyor-General (now called something else) in Mowbray. Essentially the data is free but you pay for the DVD on which it is supplied. Slingsby use the same 1:50000 maps but he was pre digital and I'm not sure what technology he used.
You can make your own maps using this data and one of the many free GIS software packages available. Quantum GIS is currently my favourite free package.


Thanks Bobby
Can you perhaps provide contact detail for the Surveyor-General. I tried to find some years ago for the Wild Coast but was not successful. Thanks

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