4x4 trail from Afriski to Amphitheatre
01 Oct 2010 12:48 - 01 Oct 2010 13:10 #1841
by tiska
Replied by tiska on topic Re: 4x4 trail from Afriski to Amphitheatre
I have to say I felt ill when I read about the latest evidence of people driving to the escarpment edge.
I find it hard to believe that these trips are independent of the lodges in Lesotho. Whereas targeting individuals who take their 4x4s to the escarpment is going to be like weeding a big garden, a focus on the lodge(s) might be more fruitful. Negative publicity would hurt their business. Of course evidence that they were complicit would be necessary.
I find it hard to believe that these trips are independent of the lodges in Lesotho. Whereas targeting individuals who take their 4x4s to the escarpment is going to be like weeding a big garden, a focus on the lodge(s) might be more fruitful. Negative publicity would hurt their business. Of course evidence that they were complicit would be necessary.
Last edit: 01 Oct 2010 13:10 by tiska.
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26 Oct 2010 07:22 - 26 Oct 2010 12:21 #1943
by intrepid
Take nothing but litter, leave nothing but a cleaner Drakensberg.
Replied by intrepid on topic Re: 4x4 trail from Afriski to Amphitheatre
Looking at some of the latest replies on the ClimbZA thread and also on
this one
from the 4x4 community site, I see a lot of finger-pointing and stand-off between the 4x4 community and the hiking & climbing community. This is unfortunate. I do agree with certain voices on these threads, that these communities should actually be allies, and that together we can achieve a lot more for conservation. It is great to see that many of the 4x4 community do not support 4x4 trips to the escarpment. And we shouldn't forget that some in the hiking and climbing community are also at fault for harming the environment. When it comes to the Amphitheatre and the Chain Ladders, the rubbish left by visitors is undeniable, unacceptable and embarrassing. Perhaps, just as much as we might consider those who litter there to be ignorant and selfish, and not true hikers, many in the 4x4 community may think that about those driving to the Amphitheatre.
The issue here should not be about which community is holier (because neither really is). The issue here is that 4x4's should not be on the escarpment. And where there is sufficient agreement and co-operation between the communities, we can do something about it.
As a side note, the idea by some that these tracks could have been a fire truck is ridiculous. Such a vehicle would never be sent to the escarpment edge to fight a blaze, and even if it did, it would take a ridiculously long time to get there - first through Lesotho and up Moteng Pass, and then several hours across difficult terrain - the idea is totally unrealistic. It should also be noted that the authorities were not surprised when the latest pictures surfaced on ClimbZA. They already knew this to be an ongoing problem. This isn't about a once-off event that happened recently. It is an ongoing problem and they have received several reports about it.
The issue here should not be about which community is holier (because neither really is). The issue here is that 4x4's should not be on the escarpment. And where there is sufficient agreement and co-operation between the communities, we can do something about it.
As a side note, the idea by some that these tracks could have been a fire truck is ridiculous. Such a vehicle would never be sent to the escarpment edge to fight a blaze, and even if it did, it would take a ridiculously long time to get there - first through Lesotho and up Moteng Pass, and then several hours across difficult terrain - the idea is totally unrealistic. It should also be noted that the authorities were not surprised when the latest pictures surfaced on ClimbZA. They already knew this to be an ongoing problem. This isn't about a once-off event that happened recently. It is an ongoing problem and they have received several reports about it.
Take nothing but litter, leave nothing but a cleaner Drakensberg.
Last edit: 26 Oct 2010 12:21 by intrepid.
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26 Oct 2010 15:34 #1950
by SeriousTribe2
Replied by SeriousTribe2 on topic Re: 4x4 trail from Afriski to Amphitheatre
Well put Intrepid.
It is a sad fact that in all communities there are those; always a minority, who think that it is their right and privilege to do as they please with the environment.
Recently a good number of Professional Hunters (with decent money already) have been convicted of, or implicated in, the poaching of OUR Rhino. Are we to immediately assume that all PH's are rabid poachers, out to decimate OUR natural heritage?
It is these few who damage the reputation of the majority.
Thus the ban on beach driving in the 4x4 community (although that seems to have moved a bit north now), and the razor wire closure of some of the caves within the Drakensberg complex, that contain a pictoral history that will never again be repeated.
As Intrepid says, the blame falls on both sides of the shed [irony intended].
As has been quite rightly pointed out, on some of the 4x4 forums, that the litter and excrement at the top of the Tugela can not be attributed to them.
Finger pointing, blame laying and mud slinging will not solve the problem. Many of us who are hikers, own and use 4x4's.
The method here is simple, and universal to both parties.
If a hiker observes a fellow hiker littering willfully, or acting in an unacceptable fashion, approach tactfully and question the motive, it may be innocent inexperience and may be solved through a non-violent discussion(and I am being lenient here on the litter issue, because throwing it anywhere anytime, other than where you are supposed to, is abhorent to me).
Take photographs if the offender is unrepentant.
Do the same with observations of 4x4's in places where they should not be.
Ultimately though, do not cause agressive confrontation. Good photographic evidence is all that is needed.
[Having once been involved with a 4x4 training academy I can state with experience that trying to teach, tell or suggest to a South African Male how to drive his 4x4 is going to lead to an argument in 90% of cases.]
The greater evil exists in the majority not taking some form of action that will make this minority accountable. So whether it be hiker or driver, document and report it.
That said, it is obvious from the written and photographic accounts on some of the 4x4 forums that these forays are by 4xfundis, originating from a clear point [but possibly not organised by the owners of said point]. GPS co-ords are given and available. None of the noble vehicles appeared to be a fire truck.
The damage ONE set of tires, on a return trip in good weather, will make on this kind of landscape can take years to heal.
If the 4x4 community wish to avoid further restrictions, then their governing bodies, and responsible drivers need to stop trying to blame others, face the [photographic] facts and deal with their morons.
Be assured that the mountain community will deal with ours.
As mentioned previously to Intrepid, it is a pleasure to be part of an online community that rationally discusses issues, and shares ideas and places, without the usual nastiness that most forums seem to attract. The congratulations for that goes to all who are a part here, don't let it be undermined by other community personalities.
It is a sad fact that in all communities there are those; always a minority, who think that it is their right and privilege to do as they please with the environment.
Recently a good number of Professional Hunters (with decent money already) have been convicted of, or implicated in, the poaching of OUR Rhino. Are we to immediately assume that all PH's are rabid poachers, out to decimate OUR natural heritage?
It is these few who damage the reputation of the majority.
Thus the ban on beach driving in the 4x4 community (although that seems to have moved a bit north now), and the razor wire closure of some of the caves within the Drakensberg complex, that contain a pictoral history that will never again be repeated.
As Intrepid says, the blame falls on both sides of the shed [irony intended].
As has been quite rightly pointed out, on some of the 4x4 forums, that the litter and excrement at the top of the Tugela can not be attributed to them.
Finger pointing, blame laying and mud slinging will not solve the problem. Many of us who are hikers, own and use 4x4's.
The method here is simple, and universal to both parties.
If a hiker observes a fellow hiker littering willfully, or acting in an unacceptable fashion, approach tactfully and question the motive, it may be innocent inexperience and may be solved through a non-violent discussion(and I am being lenient here on the litter issue, because throwing it anywhere anytime, other than where you are supposed to, is abhorent to me).
Take photographs if the offender is unrepentant.
Do the same with observations of 4x4's in places where they should not be.
Ultimately though, do not cause agressive confrontation. Good photographic evidence is all that is needed.
[Having once been involved with a 4x4 training academy I can state with experience that trying to teach, tell or suggest to a South African Male how to drive his 4x4 is going to lead to an argument in 90% of cases.]
The greater evil exists in the majority not taking some form of action that will make this minority accountable. So whether it be hiker or driver, document and report it.
That said, it is obvious from the written and photographic accounts on some of the 4x4 forums that these forays are by 4xfundis, originating from a clear point [but possibly not organised by the owners of said point]. GPS co-ords are given and available. None of the noble vehicles appeared to be a fire truck.
The damage ONE set of tires, on a return trip in good weather, will make on this kind of landscape can take years to heal.
If the 4x4 community wish to avoid further restrictions, then their governing bodies, and responsible drivers need to stop trying to blame others, face the [photographic] facts and deal with their morons.
Be assured that the mountain community will deal with ours.
As mentioned previously to Intrepid, it is a pleasure to be part of an online community that rationally discusses issues, and shares ideas and places, without the usual nastiness that most forums seem to attract. The congratulations for that goes to all who are a part here, don't let it be undermined by other community personalities.
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29 Oct 2010 15:04 - 29 Oct 2010 15:04 #1983
by intrepid
Take nothing but litter, leave nothing but a cleaner Drakensberg.
Replied by intrepid on topic Re: 4x4 trail from Afriski to Amphitheatre
SeriousTribe2 wrote:
I fully agree and appreciate that about this community. We all been part of creating that, and we can all nurture that ongoingly.As mentioned previously to Intrepid, it is a pleasure to be part of an online community that rationally discusses issues, and shares ideas and places, without the usual nastiness that most forums seem to attract. The congratulations for that goes to all who are a part here, don't let it be undermined by other community personalities.
Take nothing but litter, leave nothing but a cleaner Drakensberg.
Last edit: 29 Oct 2010 15:04 by intrepid.
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30 Oct 2010 12:17 #1986
by tiska
Replied by tiska on topic Re: 4x4 trail from Afriski to Amphitheatre
Given the extent of the drug smuggling activity along the escarpment, any 4x4 owner taking his car to the escarpment edge needs to know that they may well be suspected of being a drugs courier. As they are crossing the watershed, they are also leaving Lesotho illegally. While crossing borders on foot may be tolerated, it is a different matter for a vehicle.......
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01 Nov 2010 19:55 #1989
by domsmooth
Replied by domsmooth on topic Re: 4x4 trail from Afriski to Amphitheatre
Excellent points raised by all.
I agree that one needs to rally with the 4x4 community, but must caution that litter and excretion will take one season (especially if there are communities around like this who will go around and pick up after those inexperienced morons who continue to litter in a World Heritage Site) to recover, but the tire tracks of even one vehicle may take many seasons to recover from, and may create corridors for alien invasions. If the 4x4 community (and I hear the fact that many hikers are avid 4x4 enthusiasts) were to reign in their members and take the lead in being responsible and not leading these trips to the escarpment, and provide proof thereof, perhaps the hiking community would lay off a little.... Just a little bone to throw out to the 4x4 community....
Hope we can all ensure that the World Heritage values are upheld by all, since we have this heritage to uphold for all the World to enjoy and appreciate. It is not just for one user group!
I agree that one needs to rally with the 4x4 community, but must caution that litter and excretion will take one season (especially if there are communities around like this who will go around and pick up after those inexperienced morons who continue to litter in a World Heritage Site) to recover, but the tire tracks of even one vehicle may take many seasons to recover from, and may create corridors for alien invasions. If the 4x4 community (and I hear the fact that many hikers are avid 4x4 enthusiasts) were to reign in their members and take the lead in being responsible and not leading these trips to the escarpment, and provide proof thereof, perhaps the hiking community would lay off a little.... Just a little bone to throw out to the 4x4 community....
Hope we can all ensure that the World Heritage values are upheld by all, since we have this heritage to uphold for all the World to enjoy and appreciate. It is not just for one user group!
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