gps co ordinates

hi guys - just a quick question - the gps co ordinates given on the site - are they cape datum or the wgs 84 - the maps are cape datum and i think i am not sure on the grand traverse tracks and the caves - which do i set the gps to ? sorry to sound dumb here but i have just got a gps - a old one from a frien - well it was never used - brand new still in its box - its a garmin gps 45 xl - please help with which setting to use - thanx

All the gps co ordinates on the site are WGS 84, so to utilise these use the WGS 84 setting on the gps. Most maps are Cape Datum, but the datum difference is only important if working to or from a map with your gps.

Garmin GPSs store all coordinates internally as WGS84 decimal degrees, and convert them on the fly to whatever you set, for display purposes. This is a convenient method for converting to the datum on your map.

I have been having a discussion with the officer in charge of RNNP - he is interested in publishing a list of Berg caves on the EKZN website. I am still trying to get from him an idea of what information they would like to post, but in the interim - what are the rules on publication of info off VE? I.e. can I send him the GPS track download of all the Berg caves?

I would also need info regarding each cave (capacity etc), so I would need lots of input from everyone out there. This may be quite challenging, especially for the more obscure areas such as Vergelegen.

Personally I think its great that EKZN is looking at posting this - according to the official rules you aren't supposed to use a cave that isn't shown on the map. This would be a move away from that idea (even though its not enforced), and being on a website it would be easy to add new caves as they are discovered.

Thoughts anyone?

Let me clarify - neither VE nor berg.co.za allow publication of gps co-ords of rock art sites.

The caves in question would be:
- all caves currently marked on the maps
- "new" caves discovered, e.g. Stealth Cave, Manxome Cave, Jarateng Cave etc

The rangers in the areas patrol specific routes, and would have good knowledge of them. But they don't do passes without paths, so they wouldn't know the more obscure caves (e.g. Cowl Cave). They also wouldn't set out to find new caves.

3 passes come to mind as being potential gold mines for possible new caves - North Jarding, Tsepeng and North Hlubi all have plenty of big holes in the rock. A few days of exploration and you would probably get at least 3 usable caves per pass. We already have 2 great caves identified on Central Jarding Pass and I did see a few others that we didn't consider usable due to incredibly exposed approaches.

Here I go, making friends again:

Personally I think the least info on caves and passes that falls into the hands of wannbe's and day trippers the better and safer for the berg and all of us whom love her so much.

Read the conditions on the downloads and apply some thought please.

G

Geordie wrote: Personally I think the least info on caves and passes that falls into the hands of wannbe's and day trippers the better and safer for the berg and all of us whom love her so much.

Without trying to open a can of worms or starting some form of nuclear war - I strongly disagree with that point.

Basis for my standpoint:
- At some point every one of us was a newbie, when I first did an overnight hike in the Berg I based the route off the Geomaps and a short description of how to do Rhino Peak on the EKZN website. Some people are lucky enough to begin in a competent group - many of us weren't
- The information in question is already freely available on both VE and berg.co.za, with very little information not forming part of the overlap between these sites (a few caves and passes missing on either side)
- Numerous people at some point have relied on the inaccurate information recorded in books such as Best Walks of the Drakensberg. This book includes walks such as Cowl Cave, but it doesn't elaborate on how un-welcoming the cave is (opinion based on Dave Gay's writeup - not personal experience). One could easily show up at this cave in the middle of summer not prepared for the fact that they will be soaked in a thunderstorm - Dave goes as far as to rate it a 2/5 for comfort and a 0/5 for shelter. But the maps show it as a 4 sleeper - same as Giant's Cave which is deep, has a low roof and I would rate it as a 3/5 for comfort and a 5/5 for shelter.

My point being that we aren't hiding information that isn't already in the public domain, and while some of it may fall into the hands of the wrong people - it will also be falling into the hands of the right people.

This is something that must be approached with caution though - and that's why I have no intention of blindly merging a bunch of cave lists and ratings to form a list. In addition to which - matters such as difficulty in finding a cave could differ from person to person, I know many people couldn't find Giant's Cave when they looked for it, but we found it in relatively thick mist without any difficulty. My point being that such a compilation is not something I intend to take lightly.