Via Ferrata route in the Berg

www.climb.co.za/forum/viewtopic.php?f=41515&t=7964
This topic is much better dealt with here ...

So, has anyone got a lanyard or 2 out there that I could borrow to do the route. I stay in JHB and would collect and return with suitible beverage.

Thanks

Skapie wrote: I support the VF
If you have done it and am not happy with anything, give suggestions.
As far as I understand, it was done by a mountaineer with a passion for mountains.
They did not mess up the rock face nor pollute...to me, they opened up a section of the Berg that was out of reach for most people.
Yes, I don't want any one to set up routes and bolts in the Berg, but asgain, have you carried a bag of bolts and Hilti up a mountain pass. lol. You have to be passionate to do it.

Parks Board and Wildlife can rather focus on dagga-trains and messy campers, and I suggest they do a bit of hiking themselves.
Most of them have never been in the Berg.

So, I suggest to any mountaineer ... do it and then state your case.

Hi Skapie-
Welcome to the forum!
It is good to see diverse views on the forum.
It is worth saying that the overwhelming tone of the posts on this forum are positive, tolerant and not aggressive. It would be great if the forum were always so, even when it comes to discussing difficult topics like this.

Hello Skapie,

Yes, a welcome from me as well. I would like to urge you to take note of what mnt_tiska said, this forum is definitely not the place for mud-throwing or enforcing views by means of agressive and stereotyping comments.

whatever your view about Parks Boards and KZN Wildlife may be, bear in mind they protect the berg from far greater threats and comments like yours serve only to damage relations and future co-operation - wether youn like it or not, something the mountaineering, hiking and climbing fraternity depends on heavily. And one spend more time in the berg, you'll be surprised at what odd areas one do bump into Parks Board Rangers...

Fair enough, carrying Hilti drills and chemical anchors up the mountain my require "passion", even "dedication". But dagga-trains and messy campers upset you, what they do is wrong since it contravines the rules and accepted standards in the Berg. Exactly what bolting without permission does. Furthermore there is still a legal case to be answered here, as these actions of the "VF pioneers" are in direct conflict clear rules.

May I advise to reword your views in a less agressive and more tolerant tone - It would certainly prompt me to consider your views more objectively and I am sure the mayority of users on this forum will agree with me.

For more agressive and seemingly heading-nowhere discussions links to different forums can be found in this discussion.

regards

Hallo Skapie,

I maybe steering somewhat off-topic here, but pertaining to your comment regarding the Parks Board:

I can see where you're coming from. We were on Hilton's Pass once and one of our members were badly incapacitated with a severe ankle sprain / torn ligaments. She managed to make it to the top off the pass, luckily the injury was sustained near the top, and then we called for help. The Injisuthi camp manager arranged that rangers be sent out with horses!?! We were somewhat dumbstruck but reckoned that maybe they will ascend the escarpment via Leslies Pass.

I've been told that Leslie's Pass was named after a ranger that used this pass as a fast mounted access way (though I doubt if this would nowadays be a simple matter given the current track up Leslies). However, the mounted rescue party had in mind to ascend Hilton's pass by horseback . Now not even the fictional Hidalgo could do that. needles to say, after the best part of the morning passed the cavalry realised they can't even reach the foot of the pass. This raised serious questions about the camp manager's knowledge of his own backyard.

By the same token rangers has been encountered at various odd spots and maybe some other members of the forum can also testify to that.

None the less, to rant in rage on forums, and I believe this goes to say for a lot of rants, serve a limited purpose. Invariably, one will find the people that scream the most on the forums often do very little if anything at all. Take your case for example, have you ever bothered to write a letter to the KZN wildlife regarding this issue? Or pressed the matter at a interest group, let's say for argument's sake an organisation like the MCSA, to raise the issue with KZN wildlife?

Such interest and pressure groups have a much better ability to influence matters, and this is where it becomes very damaging for such an organisation if something like the main discussion of this thread takes place: such groups lose credibility with authorities and their effectiveness in applying pressure and to work in co-operation to serve the interest of their members is severely damaged.

Society is a complex inter-depandant structure, to take one also have to give. Whether there is a need/purpose for a VF is besides the point, but the disregard for the structures and rules set out for mutual benefit was a grave mistake and I think those too hard-headed to have this insight will learn from the future what the consequenses of this will be.

Why should the 4x4 enthusiasts keep the rules and regulations in regard but MCSA members can show a total disregard? Can you see the problem here?

Cheers!

Regards

Here are some of my views on the VF route:

First, from the institutional perspective, I expect that the authorities will prosecute those who were responsible for what may well be seen as vandalism. If the authorities do nothing, then they will know what they are opening themselves up to - namely more vandalism whenever their backs are turned.

Second, from a personal climbing perspective, I see the VF as a disappointing failure of imagination on the part of the climbers concerned. How many new lines are there between the Sentinel and the southern end of the Berg? Is the VF really the best way these guys could spend their time, talents and energy?

Finally - the arguments raised in defense of the VF are a little short sighted. One of these lines of argument is that another VF already exists, namely the nearby chain ladder. We all know that was a 1930s job and predated much if not all of the protective legistlation. This defense on the part of those who built the VF shows that they are aware of the importance of precedents. And the reason that the authorities should be concerned about the VF is precisely because of the precedent it sets. So involving the chain ladder is not likely to help their case, at least in my view.

We have also been told that we shouldn't hold a view on the VF until we've tried it ourselves. I'm afraid to say I'm struggling to understand this. Does it mean we should have a bash at other crimes as well before we decide wrong from right?

you don't need lanyard. you can make a shock absorber with a belay device. sms me & i'll show you on skype.

dave 0828877553

I do believe the VF can inhance the mountain experience to many people on a section of rock face that is otherwise unutilized. There are no trad lines due to the poor quality of the rock.
It does not spoil any scenic routes.
True, it was done without permission. But done professionally.
It is a very thin line between getting permission and justifying it afterwards rather. It is not easy to bolt anything in the Berg.
But, as examples ...
The bolts up Cathedral peak help leaders take inexperieced groups up the summit.
The pitton near Roland's Cave provide "safety" along the ledge for people uncomfortable at height...
In the end, I am glad those were there. Same with the VF.

I will simply ask the mountaineers and climbing community to consider the following:
- Why they did not ask permission to put up the VF ?
- Why did they place it specifically there ?
- where their intentions to make money ?
- Was it done to a very high standard ?
- What did it cost the guys to do it ?

I don't like to see the guys getting crucified by the climbing community, without understanding the reasons behind the project.
If you have considered all sides, then throw your stones as you see fit.
This thing seems to be getting bigger. Different MCSA sections, different Rescue sections, mountain guides, different Mountain Areas and Park's Board, etc etc ... and each have a different feeling to it.