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Via Ferrata route in the Berg

05 Sep 2013 12:38 #58376 by ghaznavid
Replied by ghaznavid on topic Re: Via Ferrata route in the Berg
@no4stopper: Nice one! Although that may be the first time in history that SARS' web address has been shared on an online forum :laugh:

We must just be careful of being overly harsh on the guy - whatever his motives were, he has lost numerous days of his life going to court, it has cost him a lot of money and, no doubt, a lot of sleep. He also will have to do 50 hours community service as part of his charges against him. One way or another he has been punished for this, I don't think we need to attack him further.

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05 Sep 2013 13:57 - 05 Sep 2013 14:00 #58378 by tiska
Replied by tiska on topic Re: Via Ferrata route in the Berg

ghaznavid wrote: @no4stopper: Nice one! Although that may be the first time in history that SARS' web address has been shared on an online forum :laugh:


Trouble is prosecutors are under rewarded, so SARS isn't direct enough!

ghaznavid wrote: One way or another he has been punished for this, I don't think we need to attack him further.


Fair enough Ghaz - but he has made an appeal and we can take a view on whether to support the appeal. If you don't want further comment on something you've done, then its best not to raise it again.

The nature of the appeal really did make me wonder if he got the point of it all. You can't blame that kind of thing on the technicality on a map. Its a question of whether you think the wilderness is worth preserving at all. Doing your own thing 23m away from the wilderness edge and using the 23m as an excuse means, to me, that you don't give a stuff about the wilderness.
Last edit: 05 Sep 2013 14:00 by tiska.
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05 Sep 2013 14:08 #58379 by ghaznavid
Replied by ghaznavid on topic Re: Via Ferrata route in the Berg

mnt_tiska wrote: Fair enough Ghaz - but he has made an appeal and we can take a view on whether to support the appeal. If you don't want further comment on something you've done, then its best not to raise it again.

The nature of the appeal really did make me wonder if he got the point of it all. You can't blame that kind of thing on the technicality on a map. Its a question of whether you think the wilderness is worth preserving at all. Doing your own thing 23m away from the wilderness edge and using the 23m as an excuse means, to me, that you don't give a stuff about the wilderness.


I wasn't aware that he was appealing this. What aspect is he appealing?

He got 50 hours + costs, that's nothing - the cost and time spent appealing will be way more than that. Now you really have got me wondering what is really going on here.

Btw - why is the Free State Berg not part of the WHS? Same story as Mnweni I guess?

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05 Sep 2013 14:25 #58380 by Clark
Replied by Clark on topic Re: Via Ferrata route in the Berg
@ Ghaz, I think mnt_tiska is referring to the appeal for funds.
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05 Sep 2013 14:29 #58381 by ghaznavid
Replied by ghaznavid on topic Re: Via Ferrata route in the Berg

Clark wrote: @ Ghaz, I think mnt_tiska is referring to the appeal for funds.


Ok - that makes more sense :laugh:

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05 Sep 2013 14:46 #58384 by tiska
Replied by tiska on topic Re: Via Ferrata route in the Berg

Clark wrote: @ Ghaz, I think mnt_tiska is referring to the appeal for funds.


Correct Clark - thanks. I'm going to sign off on this debate as it heats me up no end. Its a debate that could go on for years if we let it!

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05 Sep 2013 15:18 #58386 by no4stopper
Replied by no4stopper on topic Re: Via Ferrata route in the Berg

mnt_tiska wrote: The nature of the appeal really did make me wonder if he got the point of it all. You can't blame that kind of thing on the technicality on a map. Its a question of whether you think the wilderness is worth preserving at all. Doing your own thing 23m away from the wilderness edge and using the 23m as an excuse means, to me, that you don't give a stuff about the wilderness.


    Well said!

    In this appeal for funds there has been no remorse shown. It may well have been written by someone other than Alard, even without his knowledge, but if that is the case and after all he has been through, I would think he should have had sight of it before it was published. I will be interested to see what his advert in SA Mountain Mag says.

    Notice the following:

    The fact that they checked (albeit incorrectly) to make sure that they weren’t on Ezemvelo controlled land tells us they knew that permission should be sought.

    Despite the fact that they knew permission should be sought there is no mention of the fact that this structure was built on public land under the Free State’s control and apparently they did not seek permission from that authority either.

    No mention of the fact that once they knew they might be encroaching that they sought advice, were given good advice and then still chose to ignore it.

    Given this I think he got off very lightly, but I am still glad he has avoided a criminal record.

    Hopefully through forums like this and through the advert in the magazine others will take note that we all have to respect the law, even if it is on public land.

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05 Sep 2013 15:30 #58387 by ghaznavid
Replied by ghaznavid on topic Re: Via Ferrata route in the Berg
That is definitely a valid point. He should have known better and could have come out of this one with a hefty fine - he must see himself as fortunate.

As for the public land point - Monteseel is also public land, but if started bolting routes there I think my head would be found in a different province to the rest of my body (and I'm not referring to hiding on the slopes of the former VF). The Berg is a trad area and has been for ages, being a few metres away shouldn't change this.

I personally think the concept of bolting a route, chipping rocks to make holds etc is not right (although, much like the chain ladders, I will use them if they are already there). To paraphrase Messner - if you can't do a something without bolting it (well, he said without supplemented oxygen), you shouldn't be there in the first place. So no prizes for guessing my view on VF's...

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05 Sep 2013 16:18 - 05 Sep 2013 16:19 #58388 by HFc
Replied by HFc on topic Re: Via Ferrata route in the Berg

ghaznavid wrote:
Btw - why is the Free State Berg not part of the WHS? Same story as Mnweni I guess?


Yip. In-habitation plus water management rights.
Last edit: 05 Sep 2013 16:19 by HFc.

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05 Sep 2013 18:25 - 06 Sep 2013 07:57 #58393 by intrepid
Replied by intrepid on topic Via Ferrata route in the Berg
I wouldn't wish that kind of prosecution on any individual and I'm relieved he managed to walk away without a criminal record.

That said I find it really unfair that KZN Wildlife are being made out to be the bad guys in this. They are doing their job and have their hands full with all sorts of issues in conserving the Berg, many of which don't make it to the public ear much. Most of the hiking and climbing community were unanimously in favour and in support in keeping 4x4s off the Amphitheatre escarpment. This time the hammer fell right onto our scope of interests and it landed up dividing us, sparking much destructive debate. That is the other thing which is really regrettable. The distrust that now exists amongst various groups is damaging and is a set-back for the Drakensberg.

I would like to call for co-operation and transparency among the various user groups in the Berg and that we all strive to work with KZN Wildlife, rather than against them. This doesn't mean our opinions cannot ever differ from theirs, but we can work together in preserving the Drakensberg that we all love so much. This is a goal and value of VE that we wish to promote. I don't believe the managing authorities are as narrow minded and unapproachable as they are being accused of being because of this issue. It all depends on how you approach them. Perhaps the outcome could have been different if they had been approached. Or perhaps some other workable solution could have been established.

As for the Free State section of the Berg, I would call for the establishment of a policy governing this kind of thing. It should be established by open and transparent means, involving all relevant and affected parties. In the absence of such an agreement we are vulnerable to more controversies.
Take nothing but litter, leave nothing but a cleaner Drakensberg.
Last edit: 06 Sep 2013 07:57 by intrepid. Reason: spelling fixed
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