Dragon's Wrath 2023
20 Aug 2023 21:33 - 21 Aug 2023 17:35 #78662
by tonymarshall
Replied by tonymarshall on topic Dragon's Wrath 2023
Thanks for all the good wishes from everyone, both in the Dragon’s Wrath thread, and the many messages sent to me personally.
I certainly relate to what Riaan says, I am a chance taker, but not in the reckless or careless sense. I carefully weigh up the risks of what I am doing, and take a chance if my calculated risk is not too high or dangerous for my experience and ability, which I did in this instance. However, this time I got it slightly wrong. As Beard notes, I will be adjusting my risk taking in future, not to hike alone on such extreme hikes, and also not to take such high risks if they can be avoided or reduced, as I earlier said like lowering my pack or looking for an easier place to go down instead of just going down a difficult place straight off. I was in that ‘zone’ though, I had already done several similar scrambles, although not as exposed, and it was just natural for me to do this one too.
I have no idea why the first helicopter couldn’t find me, and sadly I never thought to ask Gustav and Nick while they were with me. I’m also very thankful I got rescued, and don’t want to make waves or tread on toes after the fact. I confirmed my gps position (co ordinates and height) and the description of where I was, by sms. Maybe the info wasn’t fully given through to the helicopter and rescuers, or maybe the helicopter uses a different grid or reference system. Gustav is an experienced Drakensberg guide, and Brett is a very experienced berg helicopter pilot, so I don’t understand why they couldn’t find me from my description of being ‘halfway between Cockade Peak and Pyramid (and Column), and roughly halfway between the escarpment top and valley below’, or the co ordinate, except if they weren’t given these details (which also doesn’t make sense that they wouldn’t have been given all the details). Equally puzzling is why the SAPS helicopter couldn’t find us, they must surely have had more detailed information. I have already phoned Gustav to thank him, but didn’t think to ask him why they couldn’t find me, and I am still trying to get Nick’s number to phone and thank him, so I will try to ask him when I phone him. It would be good to know if there is a ‘system’ problem (such as a different grid system, or the helicopter gps also jumping all over the show in the mountains like our hiking gps), so that this can be rectified in future.
No SAAF helicopters with a hoist in flight worthy condition is very disturbing. Several people have suggested that this is the new normal, and the SAAF just doesn’t have the resources to service or maintain the helicopters. If the SAPS helicopter had not been available, we were told that a private helicopter with a hoist would be brought in, but obviously at a high cost. Fortunately the SAPS helicopter could come (I think from Pretoria), and I also understand that there is no cost passed on from SAPS.
I certainly relate to what Riaan says, I am a chance taker, but not in the reckless or careless sense. I carefully weigh up the risks of what I am doing, and take a chance if my calculated risk is not too high or dangerous for my experience and ability, which I did in this instance. However, this time I got it slightly wrong. As Beard notes, I will be adjusting my risk taking in future, not to hike alone on such extreme hikes, and also not to take such high risks if they can be avoided or reduced, as I earlier said like lowering my pack or looking for an easier place to go down instead of just going down a difficult place straight off. I was in that ‘zone’ though, I had already done several similar scrambles, although not as exposed, and it was just natural for me to do this one too.
I have no idea why the first helicopter couldn’t find me, and sadly I never thought to ask Gustav and Nick while they were with me. I’m also very thankful I got rescued, and don’t want to make waves or tread on toes after the fact. I confirmed my gps position (co ordinates and height) and the description of where I was, by sms. Maybe the info wasn’t fully given through to the helicopter and rescuers, or maybe the helicopter uses a different grid or reference system. Gustav is an experienced Drakensberg guide, and Brett is a very experienced berg helicopter pilot, so I don’t understand why they couldn’t find me from my description of being ‘halfway between Cockade Peak and Pyramid (and Column), and roughly halfway between the escarpment top and valley below’, or the co ordinate, except if they weren’t given these details (which also doesn’t make sense that they wouldn’t have been given all the details). Equally puzzling is why the SAPS helicopter couldn’t find us, they must surely have had more detailed information. I have already phoned Gustav to thank him, but didn’t think to ask him why they couldn’t find me, and I am still trying to get Nick’s number to phone and thank him, so I will try to ask him when I phone him. It would be good to know if there is a ‘system’ problem (such as a different grid system, or the helicopter gps also jumping all over the show in the mountains like our hiking gps), so that this can be rectified in future.
No SAAF helicopters with a hoist in flight worthy condition is very disturbing. Several people have suggested that this is the new normal, and the SAAF just doesn’t have the resources to service or maintain the helicopters. If the SAPS helicopter had not been available, we were told that a private helicopter with a hoist would be brought in, but obviously at a high cost. Fortunately the SAPS helicopter could come (I think from Pretoria), and I also understand that there is no cost passed on from SAPS.
Last edit: 21 Aug 2023 17:35 by tonymarshall. Reason: Correct formatting
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21 Aug 2023 12:26 #78666
by Sabine
Replied by Sabine on topic Dragon's Wrath 2023
Because Tony was in a non pass position, no one thought it even possible for him to be where he was. Also, the co-ordinates when you're so close to cliffs jump around quite a bit, so the co-ordinates might have been off and they searched a bit further away.
Gauteng and Cape Teams was about to head home after training in the Dragon Peaks area, so the rescue team was able to get to Cathedral peak pretty fast. Otherwise Kzn team would have to launch from PMB and that would have added many hours.
Gauteng and Cape Teams was about to head home after training in the Dragon Peaks area, so the rescue team was able to get to Cathedral peak pretty fast. Otherwise Kzn team would have to launch from PMB and that would have added many hours.
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30 Aug 2023 20:23 - 30 Aug 2023 20:23 #78684
by tonymarshall
Replied by tonymarshall on topic Dragon's Wrath 2023
Just a follow up on my previous post, I have since spoken to Nick, and have also got some information on helicopter/aviation navigation.
Nick and Sabine know each other from Gauteng Search and Rescue, and the information Sabine posted above was from a discussion she had with Nick. Nick also confirmed to me that the pilot preferred to do a wide sweep to look for me, before refining the search, and when they didn’t see any sign of me on the sweep, they phoned me to confirm where to look. It’s a bit disconcerting that they didn’t think I could be where I said I was, although I know I was way off the beaten track, and nowhere near where hikers would be expected to be (but that’s what I like to do). Nick also kindly sent me some photos he took of my injuries, so I do have some photos of those now.
It is also apparent that aviation navigation uses different co ordinate and reference systems to ground navigation from information several people have given me. Bobby Stanton confirmed that Air Force planes and helicopters, and other aircraft use a system called MGRS (Military Grid Reference System), which differs significantly from WGS 84 that most hikers use. It also seems that not all aircraft use or have gps, so these could be other factors that explain why it was difficult for the rescue helicopters to find my location.
Nick and Sabine know each other from Gauteng Search and Rescue, and the information Sabine posted above was from a discussion she had with Nick. Nick also confirmed to me that the pilot preferred to do a wide sweep to look for me, before refining the search, and when they didn’t see any sign of me on the sweep, they phoned me to confirm where to look. It’s a bit disconcerting that they didn’t think I could be where I said I was, although I know I was way off the beaten track, and nowhere near where hikers would be expected to be (but that’s what I like to do). Nick also kindly sent me some photos he took of my injuries, so I do have some photos of those now.
It is also apparent that aviation navigation uses different co ordinate and reference systems to ground navigation from information several people have given me. Bobby Stanton confirmed that Air Force planes and helicopters, and other aircraft use a system called MGRS (Military Grid Reference System), which differs significantly from WGS 84 that most hikers use. It also seems that not all aircraft use or have gps, so these could be other factors that explain why it was difficult for the rescue helicopters to find my location.
Last edit: 30 Aug 2023 20:23 by tonymarshall. Reason: Correct formatting
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30 Aug 2023 22:26 #78685
by tiska
Replied by tiska on topic Dragon's Wrath 2023
Thanks Tony for adding these extra details. They are interesting to learn.
I had thought a lat long reference would be definitive with any error resulting from either differences in grid convention (WGS 84) or poor fix given the topography as Sabine explained, to be insignificant given the eye in the sky and the view it offers.
Under even more testing circumstances such as your phone battery dying or you passing out and not being able to follow up on your location, overlooking a definitive grid reference might have been pretty consequential. This isn’t meant as any kind of criticism of the rescue - all of them are astounding in their competence. Yet the disconnect between hiker and flight systems is deeper than I first thought. I’m wondering what the best protocol is for us on the ground to use.
I had thought a lat long reference would be definitive with any error resulting from either differences in grid convention (WGS 84) or poor fix given the topography as Sabine explained, to be insignificant given the eye in the sky and the view it offers.
Under even more testing circumstances such as your phone battery dying or you passing out and not being able to follow up on your location, overlooking a definitive grid reference might have been pretty consequential. This isn’t meant as any kind of criticism of the rescue - all of them are astounding in their competence. Yet the disconnect between hiker and flight systems is deeper than I first thought. I’m wondering what the best protocol is for us on the ground to use.
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31 Aug 2023 08:11 #78686
by ghaznavid
I imagine someone in the rescue team could carry a simple hiking GPS to find the spot in a situation like this. But I guess the number of people exploring undocumented gullies is a small percentage of the total number of people hiking, so it makes sense rescue isn't specifically equipped for this. Also not many of these gullies have decent signal, so odds of being able to be rescued in time if something goes wrong are also lower.
It is a bit scary for those of us who like exploring these gullies - and always assumed the rescue safety net would be there when we write in the register "exploring the gully between Hawk and Tent", now knowing they'd assume we made a mistake and meant KaMas or eNtubeni rather than the undocumented route in the middle of the peaks and would thus expend significant effort looking in the wrong place.
Replied by ghaznavid on topic Dragon's Wrath 2023
This isn’t meant as any kind of criticism of the rescue - all of them are astounding in their competence. Yet the disconnect between hiker and flight systems is deeper than I first thought. I’m wondering what the best protocol is for us on the ground to use.
I imagine someone in the rescue team could carry a simple hiking GPS to find the spot in a situation like this. But I guess the number of people exploring undocumented gullies is a small percentage of the total number of people hiking, so it makes sense rescue isn't specifically equipped for this. Also not many of these gullies have decent signal, so odds of being able to be rescued in time if something goes wrong are also lower.
It is a bit scary for those of us who like exploring these gullies - and always assumed the rescue safety net would be there when we write in the register "exploring the gully between Hawk and Tent", now knowing they'd assume we made a mistake and meant KaMas or eNtubeni rather than the undocumented route in the middle of the peaks and would thus expend significant effort looking in the wrong place.
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31 Aug 2023 17:12 - 31 Aug 2023 17:14 #78687
by Carl Gebhard
Replied by Carl Gebhard on topic Dragon's Wrath 2023
Not being seen or found?
Perhaps the solution lies in hiking with some of these...
Perhaps the solution lies in hiking with some of these...
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Last edit: 31 Aug 2023 17:14 by Carl Gebhard. Reason: spelling
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31 Aug 2023 17:53 #78688
by tiska
Replied by tiska on topic Dragon's Wrath 2023
Do her boots take crampons?
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01 Sep 2023 18:20 - 01 Sep 2023 18:21 #78691
by tonymarshall
Replied by tonymarshall on topic Dragon's Wrath 2023
During the week my wife showed me the post below on the Facebook page of Paramedics, SAPS and Firefighters South Africa, of a fall and rescue that took place on Saturday last weekend.
ROCK CLIMBER CRITICALLY INJURED AFTER FALLING FROM A ROCKFACE
This morning at approximately 11am, Kwazulu Private Ambulance Service responded to a patient that had fallen near Cathkin Peak.
When emergency services arrived, they found that a rock climber had lost their footing and fallen approximately 10 meters.
Paramedics quickly assessed the scene and found that the patient had sustained critical injuries. Together, Paramedics with Saps Search and Rescue, using specialized rope rescue equipment, spent over 7 hours working to stabilize the patient and move the patient to safety.
The patient was then transported to a specialist facility in PMB for further treatment.
ROCK CLIMBER CRITICALLY INJURED AFTER FALLING FROM A ROCKFACE
This morning at approximately 11am, Kwazulu Private Ambulance Service responded to a patient that had fallen near Cathkin Peak.
When emergency services arrived, they found that a rock climber had lost their footing and fallen approximately 10 meters.
Paramedics quickly assessed the scene and found that the patient had sustained critical injuries. Together, Paramedics with Saps Search and Rescue, using specialized rope rescue equipment, spent over 7 hours working to stabilize the patient and move the patient to safety.
The patient was then transported to a specialist facility in PMB for further treatment.
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Last edit: 01 Sep 2023 18:21 by tonymarshall. Reason: Correct formatting
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06 Sep 2023 08:19 #78703
by PeterHowells
Replied by PeterHowells on topic Dragon's Wrath 2023
I reckon my wife would kill me if I hiked with one of those. The flares are a good idea thoughNot being seen or found?
Perhaps the solution lies in hiking with some of these...

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13 Sep 2023 12:42 #78745
by Edwin128
Replied by Edwin128 on topic Dragon's Wrath 2023
Hi. I saw on Sunday's afternoon a helicopter flying in Giants castle. There was a fire on the escarpment, but they told me that the helicopter does not fly because of the fires, only to rescue hikers.
Does anybody know what happened?
Best, Edwin.
Does anybody know what happened?
Best, Edwin.
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