Sleeping Bags

Sorry if I dare to intervene in your discussion to give my opinion (IMHO as gazh used to say ). The most important feature is that how the boxes of the quilting are sewn, they should be like that - H frame - whatever there are baffles or not, for me no baffles is better. And the stitching should not cross from one side and directly both fabrics.
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Better if the down is manually filled in them. And what is important is to check the weight of the down which has been filled and of course the (800-900)Cuin. For what I know presently, some very good products are from YETI. They are rather expensive but it is a Rolls.
www.ultralightoutdoorgear.co.uk/yeti-m72#c88:page1:infscr5330
www.arklight-design.com/sacs-de-couchage-c102x1047033 (VALANDRE is also a good brand)

Personaly I prefer by far the synthetic or down. It is a little heavier, but if it is watered it will not loose entirely its thermal capacity.
For example the CLIMASHIELD APEX 133 better than any PRIMALOFT or other synthetic fiber. I made my own sleeping bag tailored to my size and my wishes, which is not a difficult and unpleasant job to do. Furthermore, it is quite cheap.
Hoping it will help

If one wants to make his own gear (myog) here there are the materials, "extremtextil" is a german supplier, very good and liable, with a large range of the best products and fabrics :
www.extremtextil.de/catalog/Insulation:::53.html
www.extremtextil.de/catalog/Ripstop-Nylon-downproof-ultralight-10den-27g-sqm::1680.html
www.extremtextil.de/catalog/Ripstop-Nylon-downproof-ultralight-7den-22g-sqm::1974.html
Be aware, the 7den ripsop is very unusual, the opportunity has to not be missed

Thanks for the link and making us jealous mayake . I think down is an amazing insulator but for spring-summer-autumn Berg hiking there is a likelihood of getting wet, so I have also stuck to synthetic insulation.
Some questions about the sleeping bag you made: Did you use one layer of climashield 133? And did you use water-resistant ripstop on the inner shell lining? If not do you have a link to the fabric that you did use?
Have you tried making a jacket?

Did you use one layer of climashield 133 ?
I made two sleeping bags :
* one for summer squarred and which can be unzipped entirely and used as opened as a blanket (one layer of climashield 133) +10°C min, naked inside

* one for winter, two layers of C133 on the up side, one layer on the down side, zip 2/3 of the lengh, no hood (useless - I use beanie and the hood of my insulated jacket) tested -10°C min.
With adjustabe strings it is locked with the Thermarest Airbed, thus I can turn around and move in it all the night without problem but pleasure.

Everything must be handsewn, the ripstop is too light for a machine, and the quilting has to be very loose in order to catch and keep the maximum of air.


mayake.wordpress.com/2013/02/01/sac-de-couchage-le-topbag-mayake/
The article is in french, and in my own dialect that google may not translate easily and I understand you could not catch it. Do not fear to ask me the questions you want.

@Andrew r
And did you use water-resistant ripstop on the inner shell lining ?
I forgot, I used the ripstop 10den 27gm². Don't forget, The sleeping bag has to be breathable because during the night we sweat a lot even when it's cold outside. That is why I used another (yellow) breathable ripstop for the floor.

I have given the links for the ripstop fabrics in one the posts hereupper.
Hoping it will help

We often hear about how poorly down performs when wet, but how easy or difficult is it to get a down sleeping bag properly wet, that it becomes of no use to keep you warm?

Obviously if one was to dunk it in a river, or sleep outside in a thunderstorm, it would get pretty wet, but in normal use, with careful looking after, is this likely to be a problem?

Guys with synthetic bags, have you ever got your bag so wet that you were pleased that you had a synthetic bag instead of down, and how did it actually perform? I can't imagine a drenched bag, no matter what it's made of, can be very pleasant.

And how wet does a down bag need to be before it's performance drops significantly?
Damp, moist, or saturated?

Anyone have first hand experience?

I've never had a drenched bag, but I think most Berg hikers have slept in a cave on a misty night and woken up with a damp bag.

In my mind, the most likely way for your bag to get wet would involve falling in a river, or the bag rolling into a river (e.g. when you are unpacking your pack in a cave that has a river running through it). I put my sleeping bag in a plastic packet in my pack, and use a splash cover when it rains - so it has to get through 2 layers of water to get wet. But unexpected events can happen, and I'd rather be prepared when it comes to the most important survival item I am carrying.

ghaznavid wrote: - so it has to get through 2 layers of water to get wet. But unexpected events can happen, and I'd rather be prepared when it comes to the most important survival item I am carrying.

Agreed - I put my sleeping stuff (sleeping bag and inner) into one plastic bag, then any clothes that might be in my pack into another, and also line my whole pack inside with a third bag.

Papa Dragon wrote: And how wet does a down bag need to be before it's performance drops significantly? Damp, moist, or saturated? Anyone have first hand experience?

Hello Papa Dragon, I understand you quite well and you and Ghaz are 99,99% right, and I am always using drybags too.

I have been choosing synthetic for 5 main reasons:

1. - I oftenly trek 1 or 2 weeks thru-hike without breaks. I awake early, start at sun rise, walk till sun set without stopping long breaks (summer time in Europe lasts more than 12h). Thus the sleeping bag cannot be dried daily, little by little condensation and perspiration accumulates and can affect the swelling power of down. Rolling and unrolling every day a wet sleeping bag can turn it into a flat blanket.
2. - Summer storms in Europe mountains may have very huge and heavy rain drops, like under an Tropical rain (for exemple in La Réunion), then they can cross the fabric of the tent and your sleeping bag may be more or less damp.
3. - As I told I used to make my own gear. Using down is quite impossible if you are not a professional, and I am not. Climashield is very very very easy to manipulate, this is a flat uniform layer.
4. - Climashield is also cheaper than a Good Down. A good down is one which has a high cuin (800-900) and then which has a water repellent treatment.
5. - At last I never sleep with a liner nor use as Ghaz extra splash and under cover, thus I can wash the bag regularly and easily with a sponge without fearing to damp the down.

If you are not affected by any or more of these reasons, then why choose the synthetic. Have I answered your request ?