Hiking stoves

Hi
Please can anyone tell me if i can get gas cylinders for Coleman F1 Spirit in South Africa?

@intrepid - computer programmer and scientist. Yikes!

Nice clarity on the chemistry. I didn't expect to learn this stuff on a stoves thread!

I reckon there is also a bit of physics involved though. When gas is released from the gas cyclinder, the pressure drops in the cylinder and this is matched by a temperature drop. You might have noticed this when picking up a gas cylinder after boiling some water - the cylinder is normally v.cold with condensation on the outside. (dh=cpdt-pdv, in this case dh=0 as there is no external heating, so cpdt=pdv, meaning that heat (left hand side) relates directly to pressure (right hand side). If one drops, so does the other).

So it is necessarily true that using one of these gas cylinders drops the temperature in the cylinder and makes the burn less efficient because of the chemistry which has already been explained.

Oh no....this is becoming a geek thread!

We have had this situation when the butane remained behind because it got so cold and we wrongly assumed that it was a dud cylinder. (Still using camping gaz system) So what I thought one could do, not that i have all this chemistry knowledge, is pipe or force some of the heat from the burn down to the area of the cylinder, or as I have just read, get an inverted system. Here is a link that i found that discusses different options and some home adaptations to converting an upright system into an inverted system. Just beware as the author says because it can become quite volatile!

www.bushwalking.org.au/FAQ/FAQ_GasStoves.htm#Powermax

Thanks ST, informative article.

I also still use the camping gaz stove, and have shared your experience, although not to the extent that the stove died, in colder conditions. I began to think I should have heeded all the warnings about gas at altitude and in cold conditions etc, and should dig out my liquid fuel stove, when somebody tipped me off to keep the cylinder warm. Now I better understand the chemistry and physics behind this!

No problem. The info was all new to me, as I have never really looked into the chemistry of it, or how these things actually work. Were it not for a couple of the comments on this thread, I would still not be any the wiser about the physics and chemistry of the humble burner.

I would strongly advise against playing around with modifying to an inverted gas system. The valve is just not made for liquid and problems may only arise in the long-term. Read, high up on the mountain in the freezing cold, watching your tent and kit burn down while attending to your serious burn wounds.
I must say, these ultra light sites are a constant source of:
Useful hints and tips, Mild amusement, shock and horror, head shaking.
My personal approach to the mountain is one of respect, she expects you to be well prepared and she punishes those who are not. Imagine being camped at 3000m and depending on a stove made from an old coke tin and some folded tinfoil ( But it weighs nothing mate), and if you are that cheap, don't tell me that you invested in a descent fuel container, so, methylated spirits soaked dog biscuits anyone. Kind of negates the need for a stove.

There we go ST, from geek to preacher to BOF (No, not boffin, rather Boring Old Fart)

@geordie - nothing wrong with being a safe boring old fart . I would agree 150%, I would far rather buy a properly designed system that has gone through all the research than a jury rigged system. With my cameras, I am prepared to do a bit of my own tinkering with certain things, but with fire producing apparatus I will leave it to the experts, especially when in a tent at 3000m. I think that a correctly engineered and commercially available inverted system certainly makes sense for high altitude and cold conditions.

I think with everything on the internet and on this current article, there is information that we can use to educate ourselves and there is info that is interesting but does not have to be implemented. I certainly was not going to take the time and effort to copy and paste only the bits that were information based.